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Messages - Marrow Machines

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361
Composition/Arrangement/Theory / Re: Having trouble with theory (again) - specifically scales over chord progressions
« on: April 18, 2016, 05:33:37 am »
Quote from: Lydian on April 18, 2016, 01:45:54 am
Quote from: Marrow Machines on April 18, 2016, 01:29:00 am
Quote from: R3Mington on April 18, 2016, 12:40:15 am
There's something fundamentally that I'm missing, and I'm sure it's quite a simple answer. I've been reading a lot of music theory from certified books (certified as I've been asking and people have been providing text book names that I've personally purchased), and I know I'm just missing one thing to bring it all together. I'm not quite sure how to ask it yet - but if I were to phrase it.

How do you decide what the melody is over chord progression?
(i recognize that it's the chord progression that decides the sound by designating what it is through the tonal / home chord, but you guys are starting to confuse me slightly by having the melody be somewhat synonymous with it being basically a scale played on top- in reference to modes, why would the scale be allowed to be played out of order to make it a melody? i.e modes are the scale moved over one, etc down to the 7th factor.)

hope this makes sense and if anyone has enough time to answer this b.s. i'd appreciate it :]

Because you're making music.....

Scales and chords hold relationships to one another, and like relationships, you can go back and forth between what you know. If you want to form new relationships, you have to form a basis for it, or a reference point.

It's not that it's playing it in order or out of order, it's playing the consonance or the perception of consonance from the perspective of the artist and the context behind the notes that are played.

So, you're looking for concrete rules that you can apply. You can't, because when it comes to creating, you can do what ever you want when you know how the structure of your reference point is created.

It's like designing a house. Music theory is the invisible forces that the engineer needs to take into account when designing that house. The engineer then begins to adjust the designs when the house is actually being built.

Now here are the underlining parts, to be an engineer means you gain the understand to be called that. That's similar to understanding music theory. Adjusting the house is similar to choosing what scale and chord progression to use, as well as what notes to use.
 
And all the other stuff not included in creating...

This is a barrier for you, and I sense that. Once you break this whole rule mentality, then you will be able to see the truth behind the ability to create what ever you want to create, given the limitations of what you know with music theory.

Those books don't help you apply your craft, they get you on the way to use what has been collected over hundreds of years, so that you can apply it in your current world.

After all is said and done, it becomes more of an introspection question, and that is what I offer more so than the technical side of things.

Edit:written on my phone, I'll edit when I get to my house

In Summary: Less science more tits.  :)

Good catch my friend.

362
Composition/Arrangement/Theory / Re: Having trouble with theory (again) - specifically scales over chord progressions
« on: April 18, 2016, 01:29:00 am »
Quote from: R3Mington on April 18, 2016, 12:40:15 am
There's something fundamentally that I'm missing, and I'm sure it's quite a simple answer. I've been reading a lot of music theory from certified books (certified as I've been asking and people have been providing text book names that I've personally purchased), and I know I'm just missing one thing to bring it all together. I'm not quite sure how to ask it yet - but if I were to phrase it.

How do you decide what the melody is over chord progression?
(i recognize that it's the chord progression that decides the sound by designating what it is through the tonal / home chord, but you guys are starting to confuse me slightly by having the melody be somewhat synonymous with it being basically a scale played on top- in reference to modes, why would the scale be allowed to be played out of order to make it a melody? i.e modes are the scale moved over one, etc down to the 7th factor.)

hope this makes sense and if anyone has enough time to answer this b.s. i'd appreciate it :]

Because you're making music.....

Scales and chords hold relationships to one another, and like relationships, you can go back and forth between what you know. If you want to form new relationships, you have to form a basis for it, or a reference point.

It's not that it's playing it in order or out of order, it's playing the consonance or the perception of consonance from the perspective of the artist and the context behind the notes that are played.

So, you're looking for concrete rules that you can apply. You can't, because when it comes to creating, you can do what ever you want when you know how the structure of your reference point is created.

It's like designing a house. Music theory is the invisible forces that the engineer needs to take into account when designing that house. The engineer then begins to adjust the designs when the house is actually being built.

Now here are the underlining parts, to be an engineer means you gain the understand to be called that. That's similar to understanding music theory. Adjusting the house is similar to choosing what scale and chord progression to use, as well as what notes to use.
 
And all the other stuff not included in creating...

This is a barrier for you, and I sense that. Once you break this whole rule mentality, then you will be able to see the truth behind the ability to create what ever you want to create, given the limitations of what you know with music theory.

Those books don't help you apply your craft, they get you on the way to use what has been collected over hundreds of years, so that you can apply it in your current world.

After all is said and done, it becomes more of an introspection question, and that is what I offer more so than the technical side of things.

Edit:written on my phone, I'll edit when I get to my house

363
Composition/Arrangement/Theory / Re: Having trouble with theory (again) - specifically scales over chord progressions
« on: April 17, 2016, 11:12:39 pm »
Quote from: Mussar on April 17, 2016, 10:59:58 pm
Quote from: R3Mington on April 17, 2016, 05:33:23 am
thanks i appreciate it, i think i may do that this upcoming semester.

I think it's best to go with someone who's been certified (no offense intended to Marrow, I'm sure they're a great teacher) - an instructor at school will not only be able to give you a good guideline to follow when learning, you are paying for access to their office hours where you can just walk in and go "Hey, I got a question."

None taken, i would point them in that direction as much after they've picked my brain for what it's worth. Up to the individual.

Definitely worth the experience IMO. I'd like to take a college level music theory class, but my calculus isn't gonna do itself -_-

364
Sound Design / Re: Never able to get anything above 15 khz consistently unless using high hats
« on: April 17, 2016, 05:00:37 pm »
I know that my ears start to crap out at about 16khz, unless i turn up the volume. So i tend to not have much go beyond that.

Plus i think, cassette tapes have a cut at around 16khz. I tend to find that's a good sweet spot for me though and not have those annoying super duper highs.

But yea, do what wontolla said, i don't really mess with that frequency range unless i am cutting it out.

365
Mixing/Mastering / Re: Opinions on Flux Stereo Tool v3
« on: April 17, 2016, 04:08:39 pm »
analyzer aren't cheating.

They made oscilloscopes for a reason to measure things in science. would they be cheating in the form of science if they continued to use that tool in their experiments?

Do you use a spectrum analyzer on any one of your EQ's?

Those tools help give a visual representation of what's going on. it's not cheating, it just helps you gauge about where you are given a reference point.

366
Composition/Arrangement/Theory / Re: Having trouble with theory (again) - specifically scales over chord progressions
« on: April 17, 2016, 04:05:42 pm »
Quote from: R3Mington on April 17, 2016, 05:33:23 am
thanks i appreciate it, i think i may do that this upcoming semester.

no offense to you guys but you just arent hitting the mark for what im asking- that being said, i could be asking the wrong thing.

if any of you are up to skype sometime, id be willing to pay for an hour or so of music theory, related to specifically what i was asking.

I gave you the working man's definition of your answer lol. Gotta go else where if you want the academic.

If you send me a PM maybe we can hammer out some details and set up a sype session if you're interested.

and can better tailor a response to your understanding type.


367
Composition/Arrangement/Theory / Re: Having trouble with theory (again) - specifically scales over chord progressions
« on: April 17, 2016, 04:55:07 am »
Quote from: Mussar on April 17, 2016, 04:37:05 am
I suggest enrolling in a structured music theory course, either online or in person. Getting jumbled bits and pieces of information assembled over various internet forums can get you pretty far, but wouldn't you rather just know it?

EDIT: Just to clarify, music theory is a really broad and oftentimes subjective area - there are dozens of rules for things that you are NEVER supposed to do right up until those times when you're supposed to do them. There are things that make sense only when you've learned other concepts, and it's a big mess of stuff priests tried to figure out when conducting choirs a couple hundred years ago. You don't need to rediscover all that stuff when there are people waiting to teach it to you!

I agree to this.

If it wasn't for two years of music theory in high school, i probably wouldn't understand music as much as i do.

Plus the teachers have better words, and better methods to help you reach the understanding level that you desire.

Hopefully i was of help to OP. At some point, you're gonna have to get a specialist to help you out.

368
Composition/Arrangement/Theory / Re: Having trouble with theory (again) - specifically scales over chord progressions
« on: April 17, 2016, 04:16:47 am »
Quote from: R3Mington on April 17, 2016, 03:17:51 am
i understand that but i guess i dont know how to apply a melody over a chord progression.

is the melody basically a scale jumping from mode to mode or scale to scale over a chord progression?

is there any rules to it besides having to follow the scale order?

It's what ever you want it to be. But that phrase comes with enough understanding of the basic aspects that make up a chord, scale, and the movement associated with them to eventually create the music you want from your mind or body.

To me, you can only change positions of the starting point in the scale.

If you were to change the scale entirely, your progression and "bucket of notes" have to change to match that corresponding idea. At that point, you're changing keys or root note. This is popular for certain forms of music and not really used in electronic music(from what i've heard).

You are really limited to the scale of the key you're in. But that offers many different ways to play the same thing, and that will often dictate the overall feel of the music.

There's no wrong way or right way to play over a chord progression, you just have to figure out what is good for you and use what you've written...

AS FAR as having the rules, the only rules are that you use the notes in the scale and play w/e the hell you want given the scale of the key that you're in.


You are bound by consonance of the progression how ever, and that's subjective to the artist (that's where you develop your skill as a creator).

scales and chords are equal and if you change something in one, you have to change the other to compensate. But the change can be drastic or slight, but definitely knowing the scale you're using will help shape the chords you use, or help shape the notes you use in the melody. It's a back and forth sort of thing.

It's a circular logic that feeds into itself, and if you're looking for a liner approach to this infinite loop, you need to stare and consider the keyboard in a more critical way. That's about as linear, and the limits, of any physical instrument as you can get.

369
Composition/Arrangement/Theory / Re: Having trouble with theory (again) - specifically scales over chord progressions
« on: April 17, 2016, 03:00:25 am »
If you're in a major key, use a major scale.

If you're in a minor key, use a minor scale.

The type of scales and type of chord progressions have a relationship that are associated with their corresponding root note.

Basically pick the scale in the key you're in and start hammering out some notes.

It'll sound awkward at first, but eventually you'll get better at deciding what to play with the type of chord progression.


Also, if you're usuing a MIDI keyboard and don't know proper piano fingering, i suggest you take some time to learn it. It'll make more sense when using the keyboard.

You can get away from the proper fingering, once you get use to the technical way of playing.

One other piece of advice is, start with simple melodies that you can add onto, and then eventually get to the point where you can just jam out over 8, 16, 32 bars.

But that advice comes with the technical understanding of playing on the piano.

If you're doing something other than playing, i don't really have any advice for you except to just go and do trial and error.

edit:i get most of my melodies by literally jamming for like twenty mins or so (some times longer or shorter) and record some things. The recording helps me see what i do and don't like about the idea i've written. and, some things stay some things go. You really have to see how the song wants to develop as, rather than what you want to do in most cases. Still decide about what you want, but understand where the song and your style is taking you.

370
Samples/Plugins/Software/Gear / Re: How much against the wall is bad with rear-ports?
« on: April 16, 2016, 02:57:57 pm »
Distance from the wall will give you less reflections from the bass ports.

The angle helps identify the sweet spot and get the best possible listening position.

I would recommend you just take this as is, because this is science stuff that has been tested to give every studio around the world a more "cohesive" perspective on how to mix and listen to the music.

Basically it's a way to give you the best sound and make sure you can translate what you know else where around the world, in any studio.

371
WIPs / Re: Flowstate Progressive Trance!
« on: April 16, 2016, 01:49:19 am »
Solid track dude.

Didn't get to boring and kept me interested. especially hard for a long song like this.

Good work.

372
Sound Design / Re: hard hitting 808s
« on: April 16, 2016, 01:42:29 am »
You can also buss your 808's into some tube distortion (i hear tube is good for drums, and it's pretty dank imo)

Make sure you apply an eq to low cut and high cut (effectively a band pass) to the distortion so that it won't interfere with your sexy low end.

You can get some pretty good stuff with distorted drums.

373
Mixing/Mastering / Re: Bass
« on: April 16, 2016, 01:39:47 am »
Quote from: catlikethief on April 15, 2016, 08:25:32 pm
I don't think my volume level is necessarily the issue. It doesn't seem to affect the drop or anywhere else I have the sub bass. Only where I have the single shot it seems to draw the levels of the rest of the sounds down. As far as the bass drop I'm referring to it's just a bass drop sample that you'd put after a drop or something so when I have that hit it draws the level of my down lifter down and when the sample finishes the volume level of the down lifter rises back up. I don't have the volume levels cranked

I can't decipher what you're talking about. The terminology isn't any thing common or useful :|

What is a down lifter? and how does it go down? and in what context does it go down?

It still smells like that particular "down lifter" is to loud and causing some thing to activate like a limiter or a compressor (don't mix into those things if you have them on your master buss; i also wouldn't recommend mixing into them on a channel either, because if you don't know how it behaves, you could end up getting that pump, and not in the way arnold means it)

If you can come up with better words to describe your situation, maybe i can help some more.

But i'd suggest what wontolla says and see if that does the trick.

374
Mixing/Mastering / Re: Editing the length of Kick Samples/Starting points
« on: April 16, 2016, 01:35:07 am »
You really shouldn't be needing to adjust the length of the drum or use side chaining.

Consider the balance of the kick drum and sub bass.

Consider the lowest point cut off point of both the kick and the sub bass.

I'll tell you what i do to get a nice blend of sub bass and kick.

I typically get a good signal going in both, and then i adjust the volumes. I tend to have my kick drum higher than my sub bass.

I then consider the cut off point of my kick drum and sub bass. Since my speakers have a lowest point of 38 hz, i start making cuts that are in the 40-46hz range. Once i decide where my kick is set, i adjust the sub bass cut off point, a little higher than the kick drum, lets say in the 41-47hz range.

I also spend a great deal of time layering my drums (808, accoustic, physical modeler). That has EQ, and filters [in this order; low pass, high pass, higher pass]

Don't be afraid to put multiple eq's in a row to get a more filtered sound. That can also help you tie up some unruly ends.

This is also a pretty difficult thing to do. But once again, consider the volume bias of the two tracks and the eq cut off point.

375
Inspiration/Creativity/Motivation / Re: Do you force yourself to sleep?
« on: April 15, 2016, 04:49:24 pm »
You have a choice at 1 am to either go to sleep or not.

Once you've realized it's 1 am, that should trigger some response in you to go to sleep. Other wise, you're not going to do it any ways, and you have to suffer the opportunity cost of staying up.

Last night I was in that same boat. I wanted to stay up and work on some mastering (i just bought a maximizer and wanted to test it out), but i realized i was sleepy as hell.

But i did make great progress on one song that i've been literally listening to for months, and realized i had this weird frequency build up in my reverb buss. So i had to change it to post instead of pre fader settings.

regardless, when i decided to do that, i quickly fell asleep.

So, decide and stick by your choices lol

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