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Messages - sleepy

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16
Finished Tracks / Re: Cosmic Fugue - Resolution | Progressive House
« on: January 15, 2016, 02:07:31 am »
Getting some trancy vibes off this. I like it! Reminds of Meet Me in Montauk by Signalrunners

I like the sounds you're using, and good choice for the kick. The birds at around 2:14 are excellent. I really like that break down part (mainly what reminds me of the track I linked). The little fade away at 3:15 is great too. I do think the climax at around 2:58 could be a bit stronger though, mainly because of that saw synth. I think it's a bit too weak to be the main focus of the climax. It's not bad, I just think it could be a little bit stronger. Maybe a little bit more stereo presence in the high end could do it.

Your transitions are great, the song flows nicely. The melodies and harmonies aren't awkward, though a bit simple. But, I guess they don't have to be all that complex. Good stuff, keep doing what you're doing :P


17
R&A Graveyard / Re: "Finished Tracks" Section Sucks rn
« on: January 15, 2016, 01:10:07 am »
Quote from: gd4223 on January 15, 2016, 12:54:21 am
Question for the Point System: What about guys like me?

I have not been to school for music, so I dont know all the technical terms to the T. There may be times where I want to leave feedback but dont have confidence in the feedback Im giving since I have limited knowledge in production. But if I want to get feedback on what Im making, then Im going to have to leave feedback. I feel like my feedback may come across as generic or not very good in general. So I would fear that the moderator would remove my feedback and therefore I never get to post anything for review because my feedback score is low.

Just wanted to throw that out there. Not sure if you all have covered it yet or not.

Yeah this came up already, here's what I replied:

Quote from: sleepy on January 13, 2016, 04:17:02 am
In the last track I posted I asked the forum to get feedback on my sound design and arrangement, as well as how the track made them feel. If you don't have whole lot of experience with music, then at the very least you're a human with emotions. Emotional feedback is probably just as important as any technical feedback. As long as you're sincere and openly show that you're trying to give quality feedback, I don't think there should be a problem.

Does that make sense?

18
R&A Graveyard / Re: "Finished Tracks" Section Sucks rn
« on: January 15, 2016, 12:26:21 am »
Quote from: Babasmas on January 14, 2016, 10:22:35 pm
Everytime you comment a track, you earn a point. This point is worthless. Except that when you have 15 of those points, you can at your turn post a track.

Do you mean we'd have to review 15 tracks before posting our own? If each comment = 1 point, and you leave 1 comment per track, that'd be 15 tracks. I think that's too many...

Quote from: Babasmas on January 14, 2016, 10:22:35 pm
The comment  will actually be usefull and will at least fill one of 2 criteria :
1. What did you feel about this track. Did this track made you travel, dream, etc... (Commenting "I like it" won't work and will make you lose your point.)
2. What did you think about the structure, the mix and the sounds in general ? (There's always something to sa)

So basically, if you're more into technical stuff, comment about everything you notice about the mix, mastering, effects use, sound design, etc...
BUT if you're more into creativity, then comment about the feelings of the song, the atmosphere, the ambiance, etc...

I'm suggesting something similar. I think my criteria could be more efficient because it's defined by the person posting the track for review. It doesn't help too much if someone is looking for feedback on their sound design and someone comments on their mixing or arrangement. Different producers hold different values, and what's important to one doesn't necessarily have to matter to the other.

Quote from: Babasmas on January 14, 2016, 10:22:35 pm
I've seen this in another forum. (French FL studio users forum) It worked perfectly and there's more users than here. (It's also older than this forum. 15 years old...)

So, tell me what you think.

Can you link to that forum?

19
R&A Graveyard / Re: "Finished Tracks" Section Sucks rn
« on: January 14, 2016, 09:14:22 pm »
Quote from: manducator on January 14, 2016, 10:51:55 am
Quote from: Dichotomy on January 14, 2016, 10:34:40 am
Name Calling?

Can you quote the name calling? I can't find it.

I can't either. Sorry I hurt your feelings. Didn't you say you strive for your ideals? If you're unable to respond just say so, don't cop out by saying i called you "names" when i didn't.

20
R&A Graveyard / Re: "Finished Tracks" Section Sucks rn
« on: January 14, 2016, 10:21:41 am »
You're awfully wordy...
Quote from: Dichotomy on January 14, 2016, 08:27:03 am
... it is much easier to contrive a "crappy" review than to fill out well constructed polls. You haven't seen single word feedback? or even single smilies as feedback?

No, it isn't. And no, I haven't. You're exaggerating.

Quote from: Dichotomy on January 14, 2016, 08:27:03 am
Speaking for myself, I don't restrict my life to doing only what's needed. I find an ideal, and strive for it.

I don't care, and that's irrelevant.

Quote from: Dichotomy on January 14, 2016, 08:27:03 am
Your suggestion already exists... but is naive in that people will not consistently format their posts in the way you have prescribed... Deleting posts or excluding members for not following your rubric is juvenile.

It's juvenile to want to set up rules and then penalize people for not following those rules?
There have been threads like this one, but no one's suggested doing exactly as I have. I tried to solve any issues I found in those with my own suggestion.

Quote from: Dichotomy on January 14, 2016, 08:27:03 am
Quote from: sleepy on January 13, 2016, 07:09:46 pm
I'm not saying it WILL work but definitively saying it WON'T work is just annoying and unprovable.

You speak of discussion, but you have repeatedly dismissed EVERY other suggestion than your own... with fallacious logic and spite. Every other suggestion (except yours) can be abused, right? Your solution is simple and elegant and complete, right? Why even post?

In case there are more people who agree with me. The more people behind a suggestion, the more influence it has.
I do think that my suggestion has been the least prone to abuse so far, and any suggestion I haven't agreed with I've tried my best to explain why. I think there's more spite in your post than in any post I've made so far.

I've acknowledged that my solution isn't perfect twice, and you've quoted both those times:

Quote from: sleepy on January 13, 2016, 07:09:46 pm
I'm not saying it WILL work but definitively saying it WON'T work is just annoying and unprovable.

and

Quote from: sleepy on January 12, 2016, 05:53:42 pm
... Click whores and spammers will never go away, but with just a very simple edit to the sticky on that board, and everyone doing their part to help out even just a tiny bit, it really would make a world of difference.

Quote from: Dichotomy on January 14, 2016, 08:27:03 am
Why did you create this topic if you'd already PMd an Admin?

Because they said it was a good idea and, like I've already said, if I got people to agree with me then maybe the change would implemented sooner.

Quote from: Dichotomy on January 14, 2016, 08:27:03 am
[/b] I feel like you're trying to get the community to uphold whatever rules you set up. If nothing needs to be changed other than the sticky, how's that going? What actual progress has been made with this topic? If you want this to be just like reddit, why did you create an account at TPF?

Well, it's clearly not going, and that's why I'm still replying to this post. Progress is that this is the most viewed suggestion on this board, and hopefully and administrator will say something about it soon. I never said I wanted TPF to be like Reddit, I just think a system that works over there could be very beneficial here. You said you strive for your ideals, didn't you? That's exactly what I'm doing.

You know, for some who calls out others for using "fallacious logic and spite" you use an AWFUL lot of it.

Hopefully I helped with some of your misunderstanding. Sorry I left out some jargon, I didn't find it all that relevant.

21
R&A Graveyard / Re: "Finished Tracks" Section Sucks rn
« on: January 14, 2016, 07:25:08 am »
Quote from: Dichotomy on January 14, 2016, 06:11:14 am
I was under the impression that Mat Zo doesn't write PHP modules for SMF and moderate the board himself, but has placed capable, trusted people in a position to do this. Rather than speaking to the ineptitude you apparently perceive, I'll say that I think they could do it, no problem. Also, speaking as a web application developer of 15 years, I'm not just dreaming that suggestion up. It doesn't have to be tomorrow... or even in 2 weeks. I understand there's a "throwback" feel to this Forum, but I find it hard to believe they would insist the technology be identical (versus the camaraderie or community involvement) to some antiquated web forum user experience of years past. I'll stop before I volunteer my personal abilities... of course. I don't personally know Mr. Zohar or any of the Administrators or Moderators. A "lemmie fix your site for you" PM would be rude and presumptuous.

Yes, the stickies probably need to be edited... I've seen one moderator dismiss a request for genre tagging with the reasoning that people should use a subject format that's not recommended by the sticky (it's something similar, but neglects genre).

Whether or not they can do it isn't the issue here. The point is that there doesn't need to be anything done beyond an edit to the sticky to have a more effective discussion in those sections. Keyword here is "discussion." If the emphasis is on "camaraderie or community involvement" and not technology, then it wouldn't make sense to develop more code-based, less personal way of reviewing music, especially not one that has such a huge potential for abuse.

Any system that's based on doing x amount of computer monitored tasks can be abuse easily. And having it be that way doesn't encourage better feedback either.

Having to write feedback and then link back to it when asking for feedback yourself puts you in a position where you're better off not writing bullshit. It's way harder to put together a crappy review of a song than it is to randomly fill out those polls you suggested. And when it's your own post that's on the line, you're more likely to leave better feedback.

22
Composition/Arrangement/Theory / Re: How to organize automation in FL Studio?
« on: January 14, 2016, 05:56:31 am »
Quote from: Luis on January 14, 2016, 01:00:44 am
Quote from: sleepy on January 13, 2016, 07:57:56 pm


Concerning your issue... Here's how Madeon does it.

Is that truly a Madeon flp screenshot? Where did you get it ?

Yep! He posted it on twitter some time ago for his track "Technicolor." Although you can't see many details, it still gives a bit of insight into his workflow and organization. I think it's fantastic.

23
R&A Graveyard / Re: "Finished Tracks" Section Sucks rn
« on: January 14, 2016, 05:49:52 am »
Quote from: Babasmas on January 13, 2016, 09:19:21 pm
Quote from: sleepy on January 13, 2016, 07:09:46 pm
Quote from: Babasmas on January 13, 2016, 12:02:04 pm
True, but It didn't worked last time (edmDistrict) and it won't work this time...

You're being negative for the sake of being negative. If you're only contribution after your point getting disproven is  essentially "it just won't work because I say so" then why even post? I don't know what happened to the edm district or whatever, but it works on Reddit and could definitely work here. I'm not saying it WILL work but definitively saying it WON'T work is just annoying and unprovable.
Nope, there already was a thread talking about this. i'm going to quote myself. (Here)

Quote from: Babasmas on January 08, 2016, 03:04:56 pm
The best way to do it, is to make people earn point given by the man who posted the WIP.

Everytime you see a good comment, helpfull one, you give a like. So that way, others earns points that will allow them to post. And they will after posting, loose a amount of point. (Like 5 to 10) and They'll need to earn it back. It's working on a french producer forum so far and the only thing is, that it needs to be moderated like crazy. The others hard thing is, what's a good, helpfull, usefull comment ?

That's useful, but the post I quoted has nothing useful at all. If it were easy to implement a point system I'd be all for it, but a) it'd probably involve some kind of coding, which isn't super simple to implement b) it'd be really easy to abuse a point system, and c) if the person who posts the track for review is lazy and doesn't feel like giving someone points, even if the feedback was good, the person leaving the feedback would get no compensation.

And also, out of curiosity, what French producer's forum are you talking about?

Quote from: Ozone on January 14, 2016, 05:41:55 am
maybe not allowed to start threads in that section until they hit 100 posts? or maybe become a "low mid"? something like that

That could be easily abused too. A person could just leave a ton of stupid comments like "cool track" or "how do I sound like skrillex" and easily become a low mid in no time.

24
Composition/Arrangement/Theory / Re: How to organize automation in FL Studio?
« on: January 13, 2016, 07:57:56 pm »
Quote from: Snow on January 10, 2016, 01:47:53 pm
@ Ah

Thanks for your detailed information! Will definitely try your method.

I honestly wouldn't bother.

It's nice that he went through the trouble of putting together such a detailed tutorial, but the method he's describing is outdated and probably waaay more time consuming/headache inducing than using actual automation clips. Event editing was the way of automating stuff before automation clips were introduced. Therefore, automation clips were implemented with the intention of simplifying the process. Couple reasons why event editing is bad:

-Events, as mentioned, are locked to patterns. This means if you want to have a change happening over the length of more than one pattern, you have to make an entirely new pattern to then open the event editor and edit the events. An automation clip allows you to have something changing over time for as long as you want, and all takes place in the playlist.

-Event editing is imperfect and limited in its programming. Imperfections may be good for other aspects of music, but if you want a smooth change over time, manually entering what you want is not the way to go. And using the LFO tool isn't much help either. It's tedious, and you're limited to whatever shape the LFO has.

You could do everything you could do in event editing with automation clips, without most of the hassle. With automation clips, you could select from many different shapes by just right clicking on a point. You'll get a menu of different options that you wouldn't otherwise have in an event editor. The automation will progress smoothly every time. If you want to "draw in" the points like you would in event editing, select automation clips and select "step" in the top left corner of the playlist. Hold left click to draw and hold right click to erase.

Event editing might still be useful for some things (though I can't think of any), but saying that event editing is better than using automation clips is just really bad advice imho.

Concerning your issue... Here's how Madeon does it. In other words, there probably is no "best" way to organize automation. Yeah maybe color coding helps, but it's still kinda tedious to get everything organized in a way that's fun and exciting.

One tip I can give you is to have unique clips for different sections in your song, so in case you want to add a new section between two existing sections, you could more easily move those around without a shared automation clip getting in the way. Another tip is to notice the "slide" option that's on by default. It makes all other points to the right of the point you're editing move around on your automation clips. Turn it off on the the top left hand corner of the playlist. And yet another tip is to keep automation clips that are automating the same thing but on different places in your song on the same playlist track.

That's pretty much it. The rest is hard work lol. Definitely a lot less work than using event editing though.

25
R&A Graveyard / Re: "Finished Tracks" Section Sucks rn
« on: January 13, 2016, 07:09:46 pm »
Quote from: Dichotomy on January 13, 2016, 07:27:00 am
SMF (the forum web software) has mods for polls http://custom.simplemachines.org/mods/index.php?action=search;basic_search=poll It might take a little bit of coding, but it seems feasible that polls could be programmatically tracked to preclude people from creating a new topic in a board without exceeding a threshold (set number of completed polls in the board).

Also, couldn't polls be auto-created to simplify feedback? Like 1 - 10 for different categories... (an off the cuff list)
Instrument Selection
Arrangement
Overall Impact
Overall Production Quality

Another thought - the poll would be mandatory (for the reason mentioned above), and a written comment section would be available for feedback outside the scope of the poll.

Yeah, that could work, buy I just feel like keeping things simple is the way to go. The mods and admins or whatever are busy people and coding for a forum just takes too long. Especially if it hasn't been done already and you need to come up with a feature yourself. All we need is a simple edit to the sticky, maybe other stuff can be implemented later but I don't think there's a real need for it.

Quote from: Babasmas on January 13, 2016, 12:02:04 pm
True, but It didn't worked last time (edmDistrict) and it won't work this time...

You're being negative for the sake of being negative. If you're only contribution after your point getting disproven is  essentially "it just won't work because I say so" then why even post? I don't know what happened to the edm district or whatever, but it works on Reddit and could definitely work here. I'm not saying it WILL work but definitively saying it WON'T work is just annoying and unprovable.

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R&A Graveyard / Re: "Finished Tracks" Section Sucks rn
« on: January 13, 2016, 04:17:02 am »
Quote from: UsernamesGiveMeAnxiety on January 13, 2016, 01:38:32 am
I don't answer this as an "expert", but when I post a track, the most helpful response is telling me how it made you feel. Did it get you pumped? Did it do nothing for you? Did you start thinking of your ex and a tear came to your eye? Did you suddenly want to get high? Did it make you want to punch your computer screen?

Imo, those kind of responses are more helpful than anything mix related. For me at least.

I agree 100%. In the last track I posted I asked the forum to get feedback on my sound design and arrangement, as well as how the track made them feel. If you don't have whole lot of experience with music, then at the very least you're a human with emotions. Emotional feedback is probably just as important as any technical feedback. As long as you're sincere and openly show that you're trying to give quality feedback, I don't think there should be a problem.

27
Sound Design / Re: Synth Secrets - The theory behind sound synthesis
« on: January 12, 2016, 07:15:11 pm »
Quote from: starseekr on January 10, 2016, 07:32:47 pm
Agreed! This is such a good resource, but read it slowly because it is a TON of information to take in, it goes very in detail. Very much worth the read, though.

Yup, but also read it while keeping in mind that the first article was written in 1999. The explanations given are more oriented toward analog stuff, like when he talks about the voltage controlled oscillators/amplifiers and other things that have more to do with hardware and circuitry. I don't think that these directly translates to the digital world, but the concepts are still very useful and definitely applicable to the soft synths people use today. Don't expect to be learning how to make crazy growls though, this just kinda goes through how sound works, what probably every knob on your synth does, and then details recreating mostly real world instruments. Like starseekr said though, definitely worth a read or two.

28
R&A Graveyard / Re: "Finished Tracks" Section Sucks rn
« on: January 12, 2016, 05:53:42 pm »
Quote from: Erik_S on January 11, 2016, 04:44:01 am
Maybe part of the solution is to put a reminder disclaimer that this forum is for us to work on the craft and learn from each other. This is probably not the place for anyone to get "discovered".

Saying that this isn't the place to be discovered wouldn't stop people from spamming their track anyway to get a couple more followers. We wouldn't need a disclaimer if people would be forced to leave quality feedback (aka addressing what the person posting the track specified in their post), or not get any feedback themselves. THAT would prevent spamming.

Quote from: Uppertone on January 11, 2016, 03:40:44 pm
It's hard to tell who gives the RIGHT advice.

If a newbie takes the wrong advice well, his music is still going to sound like shit.

Most people just spam their tracks there for views and don't really care what other people think.

We could have a disclaimer that says to take everything with a grain a salt, as not everyone here is a professional, and that your creative decisions ultimately depend on you and whatever artistic aspirations you may have. But that still wouldn't help much against spam.
Quote from: Babasmas on January 11, 2016, 08:22:24 am
Quote from: sleepy on January 11, 2016, 04:30:39 am
Spam would go down drastically if we set up rules and everyone helped enforce them. You don't leave feedback? You don't get feedback, and your post gets deleted. Want good feedback? Leave good feedback and specify what qualities of your song you want to have evaluated. Simple stuff here.
I agree with that but the thing is, we would need the moderator to be there every hour... and they'll need to check, if he left feedback, if he follow the rule. (Means, we will need moderator that are there only for this section) Which is hard, because who actually want to do that, except few people ?

"Spam would go down drastically if we set up rules and everyone helped enforce them." We don't need any specific individual checking constantly for posts that haven't left feedback. If we did our part and reported anyone breaking the rules, and didn't leave feedback for those individuals, the mod's responsibilities would go down drastically.

Honestly I don't know why something like this has been taking so long to implement, or why everyone's treating it as something that has no solution. If we're a community we work together to help each other and uphold whatever standards and rules we set up. Click whores and spammers will never go away, but with just a very simple edit to the sticky on that board, and everyone doing their part to help out even just a tiny bit, it really would make a world of difference.

29
Sound Design / Re: What's the weirdest sound you've created?
« on: January 11, 2016, 07:30:16 am »
Quote from: Ocular on January 08, 2016, 09:39:23 pm
Today I was fucking around with pitch LFOs in Serum and came up with this:
https://clyp.it/kauwwbgj

I would love you forever if you posted the patch, or explained how exactly you got that sound. Sounds super chaotic but still makes sense. You should definitely make that into a full song.

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R&A Graveyard / Re: "Finished Tracks" Section Sucks rn
« on: January 11, 2016, 04:30:39 am »
Spam would go down drastically if we set up rules and everyone helped enforce them. You don't leave feedback? You don't get feedback, and your post gets deleted. Want good feedback? Leave good feedback and specify what qualities of your song you want to have evaluated. Simple stuff here.

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