Hi guys, have a question regarding the volume of tracks.

I've seen some "how to mix" tutorials from all over the internet and a lot of them start their mixdowns with the whole 'faders down' approach (sorting the levels out at the start) which is fair enough. Whatever suits.

And in more than one occasion I've seen people start to use the EQ after they have said that they sorted out the levels. I know the levels is a flexible kind of tool that you always seem to touch throughout the mix but some of these people think the volumes or levels of the tracks are done and dusted thanks to the old 'faders down' method. I've seen these people not touching the levels after adjusting the EQ which doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me since you are changing the volume of the signal when EQ'ing.

Unfortunately I can't think of a source that takes this approach but I remember learning this approach from some tutorial videos and living by it for a while and then realizing it doesn't make much sense.

Am I just confused or am I making some sort of sense?

I do the fader up thingy to get a rough idea of the mix.

Then I use the eq to get every sound clear, and then I do the fader up thingy again. I have the feeling indeed, that eqing can bring things out of balance a bit.

Cool, thanks for the feedback guys.

Just read over my question/query/confusion, wasn't the clearest Marrow Machines I agree haha.

Quote from: Marrow Machines on June 10, 2016, 04:13:19 pm

it does bring things out of balance, because you're adding volume to a particular frequency bandwidth.

that's why it's better to start out with subtractive EQ than to just go for additive EQ.

Absolutely true!! I almost always use subtractive EQing.

Same here. I rarely boost. Subtractive sounds better to me.

Your volume level is actually the single most important aspect of your entire mixdown. Before equalization, before compression, before stereo imaging and harmonic excitement and multiband processing and all that crazy hoodoo voodoo stuff people slap on their chain to make it sound "professional", your mixdown relies upon the level of the different signals.

The reason people rarely mess with volume faders after setting them is because volume determines depth - the louder a signal, the closer it is perceived. the quieter a signal, the further away or "down in the mix" it is perceived. So in the traditional mixing mindset, you want to achieve the best sound possible with the volume faders alone before even touching the pan pots or any post processing. From there you can pan the sounds to give each signal more space in the stereo field, then start post processing with EQ and compression and whatnot only as is needed by the sound and within the context of the track.

EQ and compression can change the overall amount of level of the tracks they're placed on, but that is why they have output gain controls - to trim or boost as necessary to return you to the volume of the signal before it was processed. So if you're doing some surgical EQ and cutting out like 2.5-3 dB of information, instead of boosting the whole track that much you can just add a couple of dB of makeup gain within the EQ.

I don't get the logic. What difference does it make whether you're increasing or reducing volume?

Think about it. I have this vocal I wanna post process. I'm gonna be compressing it, putting saturation on it, sending it through a reverb, and in the end it's all gonna get squashed through my mastering chain. If I start adding frequencies that were not originally present, what do you think might happen when it starts going through all these effects?


Of course, there are no hard and fast rules - if it sounds better to boost instead of cut, do it! As long as you are aware of what is happening and want that to happen, there's no problem.

What exactly am I assuming? That people will post process vocals? I don't think that's an assumption; can you point to a completely unprocessed vocal track that was on a released track? It might not be the exact chain I listed, but if you think I'm saying that every vocal should have these exact plugins then you're the one making assumptions, not me.

And you're telling me that if I add something like 4 dB of gain to the 2k-3k range, it won't have any affect on the character of the sound if I just turn down the EQ afterwards? Have you actually tried this yourself to see what happens?

Lastly, where do you think the extra volume comes from when you're boosting a frequency band? Yes, it's based on the original signal but it's additive EQing. You're adding extra harmonic information that was not present in the dry, unprocessed signal.

I'm not making assumptions, because EQ can go before that stuff and it can go after that stuff. As far as "having a master chain on while mixing" is concerned, that's just an assumption on your part. Assuming that people will have their music mastered at all is what I'm doing. If you don't want your song to have to go through a bunch of remasters or get put out sounding not like you anticipated, I think that's probably not a horribly assumption to make.

All I was trying to say was as a response to this:

Quote

it does bring things out of balance, because you're adding volume to a particular frequency bandwidth.
that's why it's better to start out with subtractive EQ than to just go for additive EQ.

You could give the exact same argument FOR additive EQ.

because i understand that EQing effects the signal, it can throw the balance of that signal's frequency out of wack if you add to much.

you can throw things out of wack if you subtract to much of that signal's frequency, but typically it gets covered up by other things if you've managed to not carve out that exact same frequency, bandwidth, and gain position as well (at least to what i've see).

and i know that if you touch the EQ on a track that's already been leveled out just with volume, regardless of subtractive or additive, you don't get the proper signal as if you were just leave it be by itself? isn't that the definition of resulting in a form of imbalance?

I've seen producer's go and boost the shit out of a top shelf or w/e, and then adjust the volume right after. EQ is altering the characteristic of the sound source, and by doing that you've already caused the signal to be out of balance.

but you cause that imbalance to help fit all of the elements in the song.