Author Topic: Layering a snare over a kick. Mix help  (Read 16474 times)

RylanT

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Layering a snare over a kick. Mix help
« on: February 26, 2016, 07:52:08 am »
Hey everyone,

I can never seem to get a snare/clap to sit over a kick and sound proper. I either cut too much away and it sounds like a weird transient of the kick itself, or I leave too much low end from the snare, and it messes with the lower frequencies of the kick itself. Sometimes it sounds okay, but most of the time it just doesn't

What are some tips for layering a snare/clap over a kick on every other beat? I can't seem to get the processing correctly.
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RAVÉN

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Re: Layering a snare over a kick. Mix help
« Reply #1 on: February 26, 2016, 08:40:17 am »
I don't know if you are already doing this but have you tried lower the gain on the kick when there is a snare or clap?
Other than that, I would mess around with an EQ and try to get the sound I want.
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Marrow Machines

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Re: Layering a snare over a kick. Mix help
« Reply #2 on: February 26, 2016, 09:53:39 am »
It's a volume and EQ adjustment.

This also took me quite some time to figure out.

What i tend to do to get my general levels, is solo the kick and snare and have them play a 4x4 beat. Adjust your levels and EQ accordingly.

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IKIS

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Re: Layering a snare over a kick. Mix help
« Reply #3 on: February 26, 2016, 10:05:25 am »
It's just EQ and volume. You can try to sidechain the kick eq to the snare but this often leads to weird sounding kicks.

vinceasot

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Re: Layering a snare over a kick. Mix help
« Reply #4 on: February 26, 2016, 11:01:02 am »
which EQ are you using and how much are you cutting?

if you are using fab filter, you can turn on an analyser to help you eq

and its also selecting the right samples too to fit the kick


Miles Dominic

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Re: Layering a snare over a kick. Mix help
« Reply #5 on: February 26, 2016, 02:54:42 pm »
What I do when layering kicks and snares is a bit complex but it does wonders.

Lets say I have a kick and a snare, I would make a ghost channel for both. So I'd take the transients of both, put them on their own channel and mute the output. This gives me the kick channel, the snare channel, the ghost kick channel and the ghost snare channel.
Then I sidechain the snare channel to the ghost kick, so the kick's transient will punch through instead of being washed away by the snare's transient. At the same time, I sidechain the kick by the snare's ghost channel. However, I only sidechain away the frequency in the kick, where the snare's fundamental frequency is.
Doing this, u make room for the kicks thump (the fundamental frequency) in the kick, and u make room for the kicks transient.

https://soundcloud.com/milesdominic/mako
https://soundcloud.com/milesdominic/in-retrospect-free-dl

these are 2 examples where i used that technique.

Marrow Machines

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Re: Layering a snare over a kick. Mix help
« Reply #6 on: February 26, 2016, 10:08:37 pm »
What I do when layering kicks and snares is a bit complex but it does wonders.

Lets say I have a kick and a snare, I would make a ghost channel for both. So I'd take the transients of both, put them on their own channel and mute the output. This gives me the kick channel, the snare channel, the ghost kick channel and the ghost snare channel.
Then I sidechain the snare channel to the ghost kick, so the kick's transient will punch through instead of being washed away by the snare's transient. At the same time, I sidechain the kick by the snare's ghost channel. However, I only sidechain away the frequency in the kick, where the snare's fundamental frequency is.
Doing this, u make room for the kicks thump (the fundamental frequency) in the kick, and u make room for the kicks transient.

https://soundcloud.com/milesdominic/mako
https://soundcloud.com/milesdominic/in-retrospect-free-dl

these are 2 examples where i used that technique.

ok instead of getting complicated and convoluted, what you can do is just adjust the attack time of the samples that you use when all of your layers are played together.

You can also nudge things a little before or after, i tend to do things after because music is going forward and behind the pocket isn't so bad.

I have quite a few kick and snare layers, but the principle applies to just having a kick and a snare.

You just adjust the attack of the snare drum every so slightly, so that when you do combine the kick and snare together the transients are being applied at different times, and it'll sound like one.

You gotta take into time differences with this as well as frequency perspective.

You should also take that to hear when creating sounds with synths and cymbals.

EDIT:in front of the pocket but in MS it doesn't really matter
« Last Edit: February 27, 2016, 05:16:33 pm by Marrow Machines »
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RylanT

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Re: Layering a snare over a kick. Mix help
« Reply #7 on: February 27, 2016, 03:55:41 am »
I ended up screwing around with the placement of the snare itself and threw a tiny little bit of sc on it, so that it didnt play exactly in time with the Kick. I also EQ'd the kick to take away some of the highs.

Sample selection made a big difference too.
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Miles Dominic

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Re: Layering a snare over a kick. Mix help
« Reply #8 on: February 27, 2016, 01:49:23 pm »
What I do when layering kicks and snares is a bit complex but it does wonders.

Lets say I have a kick and a snare, I would make a ghost channel for both. So I'd take the transients of both, put them on their own channel and mute the output. This gives me the kick channel, the snare channel, the ghost kick channel and the ghost snare channel.
Then I sidechain the snare channel to the ghost kick, so the kick's transient will punch through instead of being washed away by the snare's transient. At the same time, I sidechain the kick by the snare's ghost channel. However, I only sidechain away the frequency in the kick, where the snare's fundamental frequency is.
Doing this, u make room for the kicks thump (the fundamental frequency) in the kick, and u make room for the kicks transient.

https://soundcloud.com/milesdominic/mako
https://soundcloud.com/milesdominic/in-retrospect-free-dl

these are 2 examples where i used that technique.

ok instead of getting complicated and convoluted, what you can do is just adjust the attack time of the samples that you use when all of your layers are played together.

You can also nudge things a little before or after, i tend to do things after because music is going forward and behind the pocket isn't so bad.

I have quite a few kick and snare layers, but the principle applies to just having a kick and a snare.

You just adjust the attack of the snare drum every so slightly, so that when you do combine the kick and snare together the transients are being applied at different times, and it'll sound like one.

You gotta take into time differences with this as well as frequency perspective.

You should also take that to hear when creating sounds with synths and cymbals.
That only works when your snare isn't too 'heavy'. You cannot have a heavy kick and have snare play at the same time without sacrificing the sound of atleast one of the two by EQ. My method works super well for keeping both the kick and snare sounding powerfull

Marrow Machines

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Re: Layering a snare over a kick. Mix help
« Reply #9 on: February 27, 2016, 05:14:27 pm »
That only works when your snare isn't too 'heavy'. You cannot have a heavy kick and have snare play at the same time without sacrificing the sound of atleast one of the two by EQ. My method works super well for keeping both the kick and snare sounding powerfull

You can get some weight by adjusting just the eq of either sound, the point being is to allow each transient to occur at a different time is the essential part of getting both sounds to sit well together.

What you describe is essentially the same thing i did, but my way is more simple because it's one parameter on the drum machine or sampler or if you're using samples then it's a slight cross fade.

i wasn't attacking you're way, it was a little convoluted is all because of the complex routing. and it's only convoluted because of the complex routing.
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Cor Sicarius

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Re: Layering a snare over a kick. Mix help
« Reply #10 on: February 28, 2016, 02:54:14 am »
Real quick tip with fabfilter's eq.

You can do a left and right eq. So I'd reccomend eq'ing the top and bottom parts of your snare to the right side (or whatever side you high hats aren't going to. Don't overdo it tho as you want your snare to still sound like it's coming from the center. Just a little touch and you'll hear it fall into place! EXTREMELY helpful btw. Also works if you have a synth that sounds bad if you cut the top half, but it rides over your high hats. Just eq both of them to opposite sides and bam, they both come through crystal clear.

RylanT

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Re: Layering a snare over a kick. Mix help
« Reply #11 on: February 29, 2016, 08:41:53 am »
What I do when layering kicks and snares is a bit complex but it does wonders.

Lets say I have a kick and a snare, I would make a ghost channel for both. So I'd take the transients of both, put them on their own channel and mute the output. This gives me the kick channel, the snare channel, the ghost kick channel and the ghost snare channel.
Then I sidechain the snare channel to the ghost kick, so the kick's transient will punch through instead of being washed away by the snare's transient. At the same time, I sidechain the kick by the snare's ghost channel. However, I only sidechain away the frequency in the kick, where the snare's fundamental frequency is.
Doing this, u make room for the kicks thump (the fundamental frequency) in the kick, and u make room for the kicks transient.

https://soundcloud.com/milesdominic/mako
https://soundcloud.com/milesdominic/in-retrospect-free-dl

these are 2 examples where i used that technique.
That makes sense, and it works in your 2 tracks you posted. A little workflow heavy however haha
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movementmachina

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Re: Layering a snare over a kick. Mix help
« Reply #12 on: February 29, 2016, 10:42:45 pm »
If you've got a multiband compressor with a sidechain input, you could make the weight of the snare (150-200hz) cut through better by attenuating those frequencies on the kick, by adjusting the sidechain filter to only grab those frequencies on the kick when the snare hits

MaorLevi

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Re: Layering a snare over a kick. Mix help
« Reply #13 on: March 02, 2016, 07:18:01 pm »
 Phase inversion also does wonders!
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RylanT

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Re: Layering a snare over a kick. Mix help
« Reply #14 on: March 04, 2016, 02:41:32 am »
Phase inversion also does wonders!
Might be worth a try, seems like such a simple thing, I don't know why I'm making this so difficult
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