Why dont you believe in urself? just because its getting a little tough you're going to start doubting urself?  this world is full of people who give up be one of the very few who doesnt .understand that in order for you to have anything of great value you must suffer and endore

Exactly, what do you as of right now, this moment of your life you hobby/career do feel like you've "mastered" because
1.)you never really master anything in art there is always much more to learn (don't mean this in a bad way, trying to motivate you)

How much work have you put in theory & fundamentals?
Look back at your work, listen to it, song structure wise harmony wise, melody wise. Do you think you put in 100%? Ddid you rush your tracks just to finish them?
A lot of projects, I've read from guys like madeon and stuff say they work on 1 track example Technicolor I'll post the link at the bottom tho I'm sure you've already heard it took him 7 months I believe he said. He would be on and off it changed various times

https://soundcloud.com/madeon/technicolor-original

GQ interview
Madeon quote follows

I've been in the studio for three months and written a bunch of songs and thought, "You know what? Not good enough." I thought I'd take three months off from touring - which is a big deal as touring is profitable - but I need some level of productivity. So I went to the studio to create. But I wasn't [thinking], "I need five new singles for the next 12 months." It was rather, "Let's study movie scores. Let's see what that is about." I'm glad I have this knowledge as now I have something else I can do. You can either cultivate spontaneity or you can be exhaustive in your knowledge and capacity. I'm more towards the latter. You know, my music sounds happy, but it's a painful process and I take it quite seriously. I do realise that if I keep on with this attitude forever - of scrapping songs and taking six months to finish a record - I'll pretty much have an album in 2035.

Here's a thread started by madeon showing off his struggle & tips

https://www.reddit.com/r/edmproduction/comments/186kli/im_madeon_lets_talk_production/

You're thinking of this (the whole music thing as money) it shouldn't be about money while everyone here wants that, priority number one should be about what it started with Music and should in with music

There's a quote in Kill The Noises song, I'll link the bottom with the song the quote is in the song & hope it makes you not give up I'll quote it as well

"You got to reevaluate you perspective & you priorities, because, you started doing this because it was fucking fun, it has to be fun, otherwise, you're just torturing yourself you know, you're just stuck inside you own fucking head"

https://soundcloud.com/killthenoise/all-in-my-head-feat-awolnation

I find inspiration in music, anime, other peoples work, score, films
Music isn't just about understanding music in an album or ep, it's about understanding sound not just in music, but in film, IRL event's, film piece together how a song in a film or in my case anime makes you come to tears. Evaluate it as sound, a person or being that provides support in an intangible way it moves everyone because someone took the time & learn to struggle to provide that feeling in you.

But as a guy who started in high school now been producing for 2 and a half years, 20, still a lot to learn, I have dropped out of college for this so I can somewhat understand what you're going through but i'm having fun with this, I love this in the end, I'd rather die doing what I love than living & working in a office. The world needs more creative people and less men with black and white shirts and black neck chokers around their necks who kill imagination. That's all I can say, hope it helped

Btw this was madeon now he was 10 I think, but still it took I'm 10 years to get where he is now. link in the bottom
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=424340&content=widgets

Hey guys. It's been 6 years and a half since I've gotten into music as a hobby. I started off with guitar and then expanded to bass, piano, production, engineering, sound design, DJing, vocals, and drums. I'm at a point where my music isn't good enough to be profitable and yet I've already dedicated so much time to the art.

Ok, in the past 6 years, how many tracks have you finished? The time you've spent doing this is hardly as important compared to the amount of tracks you've finished within that time frame.

The life of any artist is tough and requires lots of sacrifice. It seems like the only way to make a decent living nowadays as an artist is through touring and touring makes it difficult to have a relationship according to what I've heard. Aside from that I've heard its even harder to make decent money in the industry.

So you're looking at music making solely from a money-making point of view... hmm...

What makes it worth it to you?

You know what? I actually don't ever ask myself questions like that. The option of doing anything else has really never come into play.

I've reached a point where I've come too far and given up too much to stop writing music. However I feel like I'm having somewhat of a quarter life crisis when it comes to thinking about whether all that time was worth it considering the things I had to give up because of it.

Let me tell you.... 6 years might seem like a long time to you, but it really isn't. True story. I have a friend who grew up playing keyboards, was in a signed 80's synth pop band, got into producing and engineering after the band disbanded, owned and ran a large studio for 10 years . And then the economy hit and had to shut down his studio. He always had a background in graphic design so he decided that he wanted to focus on that and now has a very good job in that field. He earns a very nice pay check every month and has even worked with Coldplay (he did some of their graphics for their live shows), Jay-Z and Usher. You say you have invested a lot of time and effort... what about my friend then? 10 years running a studio? 10 years mixing and producing? What about the 10 years of classical piano training? Suddenly the 6 years you mentioned now seems quite minuscule in comparison.

It feels like I live in a different world from everyone else around me. People don't understand how I can spend so much time on music and there is so much pressure from society to focus on a career, get married, and have kids. The only people who I can really have a good conversation with are other musicians/producers because they're the only ones who understand what I'm doing. Does anyone else feel the same way?

I feel that to this day, people still do not get me, why I do the things I do, or the choices I make. A producer's life (unless you have a collab partner) is quite a solitary one. It's different when you play in a band.. you have band members and you play music with other people. But as a producer, you're doing almost everything on your own. I can say one thing though. I was blessed with parents who were pretty understanding and let me go to music school, do music professionally, etc.. If you're parents aren't as understanding, then I don't know what else to say. At the end of the day, YOU make the choice of whether to give in to the pressures of "society" or not.

Actually, the title of this post and what you wrote don't really connect with one another to be honest. Again, I think it's really strange to ask a question like this.

At the end of the day, you either do it or you don't. Music doesn't own you anything, it never will.

When talking about ambitions/goals, it always depends on how badly you want it. It doesn't sound like you want it enough.

Why dont you believe in urself? just because its getting a little tough you're going to start doubting urself?  this world is full of people who give up be one of the very few who doesnt .understand that in order for you to have anything of great value you must suffer and endore

It's just real hard to listen to guys like Madeon, Seven Lions, and Virtual Riot and then listen to my own music. How can you expect someone to not doubt themselves when they're going up against these guys? You can understand that can't you? Don't get me wrong I know that these things take time but if you enjoy what you do should there really be any sort of suffering involved? It's not that I'm suffering but I just feel regret because I've spent all this time on music without much to show for it because none of my tracks sound professional enough yet to release.

Exactly, what do you as of right now, this moment of your life you hobby/career do feel like you've "mastered" because
1.)you never really master anything in art there is always much more to learn (don't mean this in a bad way, trying to motivate you)

How much work have you put in theory & fundamentals?
Look back at your work, listen to it, song structure wise harmony wise, melody wise. Do you think you put in 100%? Ddid you rush your tracks just to finish them?
A lot of projects, I've read from guys like madeon and stuff say they work on 1 track example Technicolor I'll post the link at the bottom tho I'm sure you've already heard it took him 7 months I believe he said. He would be on and off it changed various times

https://soundcloud.com/madeon/technicolor-original

GQ interview
Madeon quote follows

Quote

I've been in the studio for three months and written a bunch of songs and thought, "You know what? Not good enough." I thought I'd take three months off from touring - which is a big deal as touring is profitable - but I need some level of productivity. So I went to the studio to create. But I wasn't [thinking], "I need five new singles for the next 12 months." It was rather, "Let's study movie scores. Let's see what that is about." I'm glad I have this knowledge as now I have something else I can do. You can either cultivate spontaneity or you can be exhaustive in your knowledge and capacity. I'm more towards the latter. You know, my music sounds happy, but it's a painful process and I take it quite seriously. I do realise that if I keep on with this attitude forever - of scrapping songs and taking six months to finish a record - I'll pretty much have an album in 2035.

Here's a thread started by madeon showing off his struggle & tips

https://www.reddit.com/r/edmproduction/comments/186kli/im_madeon_lets_talk_production/

You're thinking of this (the whole music thing as money) it shouldn't be about money while everyone here wants that, priority number one should be about what it started with Music and should in with music

There's a quote in Kill The Noises song, I'll link the bottom with the song the quote is in the song & hope it makes you not give up I'll quote it as well

"You got to reevaluate you perspective & you priorities, because, you started doing this because it was fucking fun, it has to be fun, otherwise, you're just torturing yourself you know, you're just stuck inside you own fucking head"

https://soundcloud.com/killthenoise/all-in-my-head-feat-awolnation

I find inspiration in music, anime, other peoples work, score, films
Music isn't just about understanding music in an album or ep, it's about understanding sound not just in music, but in film, IRL event's, film piece together how a song in a film or in my case anime makes you come to tears. Evaluate it as sound, a person or being that provides support in an intangible way it moves everyone because someone took the time & learn to struggle to provide that feeling in you.

But as a guy who started in high school now been producing for 2 and a half years, 20, still a lot to learn, I have dropped out of college for this so I can somewhat understand what you're going through but i'm having fun with this, I love this in the end, I'd rather die doing what I love than living & working in a office. The world needs more creative people and less men with black and white shirts and black neck chokers around their necks who kill imagination. That's all I can say, hope it helped

Btw this was madeon now he was 10 I think, but still it took I'm 10 years to get where he is now. link in the bottom
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=424340&content=widgets

I'm not trying to say I've mastered anything... If anything I've got a long way to go. I've put in more work in my fundamentals and theory than anything else. Yet producing doesn't get any less challenging. The only reason why I bring up money is because in order for me to have the time to keep making music I need money to pay for bills. That money has to come from somewhere and if it isn't gonna be music then It's gonna be hard finding the time to dedicate the "7months" on producing one track. I'll be working at some office job 40 hours a week instead which will make it harder to dedicate the time necessary to produce.

I found the deamon link entertaining. Thanks for that.

c'mon dude, its okay to be emotional but you cant be too emotional in this world, no one cares about your life stories cause you have to be strong in the music business

what are your ambitions man?

do you want to make music for fun? or to go to reach the top?

it is sacrifice to get to anywhere in this world, like being a doctor etc you must give to get cause nothing is free
this means you have to put in the hours to develop your craft

most people in this world are lazy and wont put in the madness hours to get where they want, these people expect a big result and end up short, I'm talking about anybody really, not just music

you have to believe in your game and fight for what you want in this world, that is for any career

The ultimate goal would be able to make a living off of writing music that I'm proud of. The music I'm writing now isn't music I'm proud of. It's music that I'm TRYING to be proud of but can't because I'm far to critical of my own work. Thanks for not getting all butthurt over the post like some other people. Seriously...

Quote from: Lydian on February 11, 2016, 04:30:14 am

Hey guys. It's been 6 years and a half since I've gotten into music as a hobby. I started off with guitar and then expanded to bass, piano, production, engineering, sound design, DJing, vocals, and drums. I'm at a point where my music isn't good enough to be profitable and yet I've already dedicated so much time to the art.

Ok, in the past 6 years, how many tracks have you finished? The time you've spent doing this is hardly as important compared to the amount of tracks you've finished within that time frame.

Quote from: Lydian on February 11, 2016, 04:30:14 am

The life of any artist is tough and requires lots of sacrifice. It seems like the only way to make a decent living nowadays as an artist is through touring and touring makes it difficult to have a relationship according to what I've heard. Aside from that I've heard its even harder to make decent money in the industry.

So you're looking at music making solely from a money-making point of view... hmm...

Quote from: Lydian on February 11, 2016, 04:30:14 am

What makes it worth it to you?

You know what? I actually don't ever ask myself questions like that. The option of doing anything else has really never come into play.

Quote from: Lydian on February 11, 2016, 04:30:14 am

I've reached a point where I've come too far and given up too much to stop writing music. However I feel like I'm having somewhat of a quarter life crisis when it comes to thinking about whether all that time was worth it considering the things I had to give up because of it.

Let me tell you.... 6 years might seem like a long time to you, but it really isn't. True story. I have a friend who grew up playing keyboards, was in a signed 80's synth pop band, got into producing and engineering after the band disbanded, owned and ran a large studio for 10 years . And then the economy hit and had to shut down his studio. He always had a background in graphic design so he decided that he wanted to focus on that and now has a very good job in that field. He earns a very nice pay check every month and has even worked with Coldplay (he did some of their graphics for their live shows), Jay-Z and Usher. You say you have invested a lot of time and effort... what about my friend then? 10 years running a studio? 10 years mixing and producing? What about the 10 years of classical piano training? Suddenly the 6 years you mentioned now seems quite minuscule in comparison.

Quote from: Lydian on February 11, 2016, 04:30:14 am

It feels like I live in a different world from everyone else around me. People don't understand how I can spend so much time on music and there is so much pressure from society to focus on a career, get married, and have kids. The only people who I can really have a good conversation with are other musicians/producers because they're the only ones who understand what I'm doing. Does anyone else feel the same way?

I feel that to this day, people still do not get me, why I do the things I do, or the choices I make. A producer's life (unless you have a collab partner) is quite a solitary one. It's different when you play in a band.. you have band members and you play music with other people. But as a producer, you're doing almost everything on your own. I can say one thing though. I was blessed with parents who were pretty understanding and let me go to music school, do music professionally, etc.. If you're parents aren't as understanding, then I don't know what else to say. At the end of the day, YOU make the choice of whether to give in to the pressures of "society" or not.

Actually, the title of this post and what you wrote don't really connect with one another to be honest. Again, I think it's really strange to ask a question like this.

At the end of the day, you either do it or you don't. Music doesn't own you anything, it never will.

When talking about ambitions/goals, it always depends on how badly you want it. It doesn't sound like you want it enough.

Yeah, well... you know that's just like your uhh... opinion man

The ultimate goal would be able to make a living off of writing music that I'm proud of. It's music that I'm TRYING to be proud of but can't because I'm far to critical of my own work.

Well, take it from a person who actually does make a living off of writing music.. your first step would be to get over yourself.

Try picking up this book: http://www.amazon.com/The-War-Art-Steven-Pressfield-ebook/dp/B007A4SDCG It's funny because in this book the author actually describes people just like you. Check out the book, seriously. You seem to have a lot of inner issues, and this book might help you. I've read your other posts too.. you are the same guy who was asking about whether it's okay to force yourself to produce, and you also started the 'Writing Faster and Finishing Songs' thread. I wonder... do you have any fun at all when you produce music?

From your previous posts, it sounds like you've only completed 'a few songs'. While you might have some knowledge about production in general, all of this doesn't really matter when you haven't made a full track. Making a full track is a lot harder than mixing something or making some nice bass growls. It is it's own art form. How do you think Madeon got so good? He says it himself in some AMA that his number goes into the hundreds/thousands.

Hey man, I'm not trying to put you down, I'm just trying to help you realize that none of this will come easy. I work a minimum wage job to pay my bills and soon want to get another job but I'm doing the second job for my music, I'm prepared to sleep 2, 3 hours a night to help pay for my music, equipment, I'm going to libraries, buying books to learn etc.

Listen man, the knowledge you've attained sounds like you haven't been using to it's full extent, sounds like you're afraid to fail, but you can't be, you have to come into this being prepared to fail and NOT be afraid to fail.
Experiment more, even if it sounds like shit push through it man, finish it, and go back & see what you could of done better & fix it, while reviewing your work you'll realize so much more you could of done & then you will go back to it and add more you'll get inspired, thus you will improve more & more
Learning is one thing but producing is a totally different beast man. That's why this forum is here to help people like you & I achieve our dreams, some people cared enough to create this for us and many other forums, so lets put in the work, & also search on our own

"You got to keep your ideals high, you got to know, that the sky belongs to no one" amazing verse from Above & Beyond that I believe fits here perfectly.

Hey man, I'm not trying to put you down, I'm just trying to help you realize that none of this will come easy. I work a minimum wage job to pay my bills and soon want to get another job but I'm doing the second job for my music, I'm prepared to sleep 2, 3 hours a night to help pay for my music, equipment, I'm going to libraries, buying books to learn etc.

Listen man, the knowledge you've attained sounds like you haven't been using to it's full extent, sounds like you're afraid to fail, but you can't be, you have to come into this being prepared to fail and NOT be afraid to fail.
Experiment more, even if it sounds like shit push through it man, finish it, and go back & see what you could of done better & fix it, while reviewing your work you'll realize so much more you could of done & then you will go back to it and add more you'll get inspired, thus you will improve more & more
Learning is one thing but producing is a totally different beast man. That's why this forum is here to help people like you & I achieve our dreams, some people cared enough to create this for us and many other forums, so lets put in the work, & also search on our own

"You got to keep your ideals high, you got to know, that the sky belongs to no one" amazing verse from Above & Beyond that I believe fits here perfectly.

Don't worry about it dude. I know you're just trying to help. It's only the "smartass" attitude of certain people offering their "help" that annoys me. I admire your dedication. I also work at a minimum wage job just like you while going to school full-time so I definitely know that grind. If you ever need any books just hit me up and I'd be happy to help you out.

Quote from: KAB on February 11, 2016, 08:50:11 am

I'm just trying to help you realize that none of this will come easy. I work a minimum wage job to pay my bills and soon want to get another job but I'm doing the second job for my music, I'm prepared to sleep 2, 3 hours a night to help pay for my music, equipment, I'm going to libraries, buying books to learn etc.

Listen man, the knowledge you've attained sounds like you haven't been using to it's full extent, sounds like you're afraid to fail, but you can't be, you have to come into this being prepared to fail and NOT be afraid to fail.
Experiment more, even if it sounds like shit push through it man, finish it, and go back & see what you could of done better & fix it, while reviewing your work you'll realize so much more you could of done & then you will go back to it and add more you'll get inspired, thus you will improve more & more
Learning is one thing but producing is a totally different beast man. That's why this forum is here to help people like you & I achieve our dreams, some people cared enough to create this for us and many other forums, so lets put in the work, & also search on our own.

This guy totally gets it.

Quote from: Lydian on February 11, 2016, 08:50:11 am

Do I seriously bother you that much that you need to stalk my profile and throw self help books at me?

Yes, it does bother me that you seem to basically ask the same questions over and over again, like a broken record. That book is actually really good. I only bought it because Morgan Page recommended it and I'm really glad I read it. But I was right though, you don't want it enough. You won't even admit to the problem, that you're afraid of failing as KAB mentioned, and you turn away any gesture of help. You just want people to tell you the things you want to hear. Well, life just doesn't work like that. Life is so much more cruel than that.

Quote from: Lydian on February 11, 2016, 08:50:11 am

Just because you're good enough to make a living off of writing music doesn't mean the rest of us on this forum can be as pro as you.

The only reason why I brought the thing about me doing music for a living was to make a point; that I have been through what you're going through but yet I chose to fight back and push through. Anybody can achieve anything, even you and everybody else on the forum. Anybody can be a pro. But it takes a lot of work and sacrifice, just like with anything else. And not only is it going to take time, you gotta be in a certain mindset as well.. letting go of the fear of failure. In fact, I've seen a few pros on this forum; Mat Zo, Matt Lange, etc.. and they will all tell you the same thing.

I think I've invested more time than I should have on trying to give you advice so I'm going to stop now. So Lydian, good luck in achieving your dreams.

Look dude... Relax. I'll give the book a read.



I get it. Life is cruel. We're all gonna die within the next 60 years. Cry me a river build a bridge and get over it.

All I was asking is "what makes music worth it to you?" I don't know what you thought I was asking... but I'm pretty sure I've only asked this question once.

You act like it's a crime to be afraid of failure. At least I embrace my fear and do it anyways instead of trying to pretend like I'm some sort of god of war without a fight or flight system.

EDIT: Nice quote dude. This book is giving me the feels trip.

"The artist must be like that Marine. He has to know how to be miserable. He has to love being miserable. He has to take pride in being more miserable than any soldier or swabbie or jet jockey. Because this is war, baby. And war is hell."