Show Posts

This section allows you to view all posts made by this member. Note that you can only see posts made in areas you currently have access to.


Messages - Dichotomy

Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5
16
Mixing/Mastering / Re: Don't trust your ears!
« on: January 16, 2016, 11:43:33 pm »
Quote from: wayfinder on January 16, 2016, 10:59:52 pm
Sorry mate, you're still treating this as if it were some kind of RPG where you can learn spells and level up, that's just not how it works. If you are having trouble dealing with ambiguity, I can respect that and deal with; I have friends who are on the autism spectrum and face similar problems. What I cannot do is change reality so that it conforms to your expectations.

The approach that works consistently is

1. identify problem
2. solve problem and remember how you did it
3. if still not happy with it, identify another problem and goto 2.
4. call it finished

The types of problems and possible solutions are too plentiful to create a manual for every situation, and the problems themselves are so specific to the material that there can be no one-size-fits-all solution. I'm telling you that what you want to do is not possible.
I see you are passionate about your opinions. 8) Your list seems deliberately over-simplified. Perhaps you think I'm looking for a list of similar length with technical specifics? I am not. I'm not looking for a one-size-fits-all solution. I see that you are experiencing the reality you have chosen for yourself. :D I hope your methods for deciding what's not possible are useful to you.

Quote from: Dichotomy on January 15, 2016, 02:21:25 am
This forum is already a resource for elementary technique. We have threads in many areas: Understanding Compressors, Multi-Band Compressors, Pink Noise Mixing, Equal Loudness Contours, Sub Bass, Stereo Separation, Clipping, Headroom... and each of them definitely deserves the attention they are receiving. Where these topics are "deep" in discussion, I am trying to make a resource that's "wide"... with a gracious nod to the "depth" in the other topics.
I think you missed that 'lil bit... but no worries. :)

Quote from: wayfinder on January 16, 2016, 10:59:52 pm
There's no difference between "pro" techniques that will take an amateur's efforts to release-ready levels on the one side, and "regular" techniques that can easily be found and performed by novices on the other.
Ok, that's my fault. I apologize for not articulating that well.

Quote from: Dichotomy on January 15, 2016, 02:21:25 am
I'm trying set aside the people that would "thicken it up with flour & a 'lil butter" and speak with those who would "prepare a roux."
Does that help a little? I don't think the actual physical action is "pro", or "regular", or requires some special dexterity or mental gymnastics only available to those anointed with the blessing of institutionalized education.

Quote from: wayfinder on January 16, 2016, 10:59:52 pm
There's no [...] way of talking about the mix that, if only you could be taught it, would make you a "top-level producer". It's only through [...] identifying problems [...] and solving them in any way that works that your output will consistently improve.
I disagree. Accredited institutions would not exist if this were true. "The Sound Reinforcement Handbook" by Gary Davis would probably not exist if this were true. Trial and error is not the only way to improve.

If you'll allow me to derail our back & forth on this single point... I'd like to ask you a few questions. Have you taken any courses in audio engineering? Have you attended a specialized school for any specific discipline? I'm not attempting to devalue your perspective by suggesting lack of experience invalidates it. I'm only trying to understand how you have acquired this perspective.

Also, thanks for being respectful. +1

17
Mixing/Mastering / Re: Don't trust your ears!
« on: January 16, 2016, 10:27:47 pm »
Quote from: lopryo on January 14, 2016, 05:21:45 pm
also consider that you can reference or analyze 10 different tracks that have seen "professional" success and find that they all have different mix characteristics. you'd drive yourself nuts trying to chase this "sound" that doesn't have a clear definition to begin with.
I believe tracks mixed by professional studio engineers have been categorized with a vocabulary that allows them to communicate succinctly with other engineers. Restated - given the degrees of freedom allowed by each technique, there exist configurations that have been named. Knowledge of these configurations allows studio engineers to apply them to mixes deliberately and consistently. Only after learning these configurations, and observing how they are typically applied to music (e.g. common mixing styles in a genre), can one then form their own values and apply precise technique to their own mixes.

To make another comparison to software engineering: Software Design Pattern
No secrets, no magic. Not winging it. Definitely not foolproof. Repeatable, industry respected techniques? Yes.

18
Mixing/Mastering / Re: Don't trust your ears!
« on: January 16, 2016, 09:05:03 pm »
Quote from: wayfinder on January 16, 2016, 09:57:08 am
To me, the take-away from this thread is that you should trust your ears, and I feel like it's not been made clear enough that there's really no clear line that separates "industry-standard", "top producers", "professional tracks" from the rest of the world, no sudden insights and industry secrets kept from novices. It's a lot more like adulthood instead, which (attention young people: spoilers!) we all kinda fake. An entire world is indeed winging it to a certain extent.

This fetishization of having fool proof methods to succeed and achieve "professional quality" is a detraction.
To make a comparison: as a software engineer, it is obvious to me if another engineer is autodidactic or trained. I can immediately tell if someone is winging it, or is exercising skills that were learned or taught to them.

I'm not sure where some are getting this idea that this topic an attempt to uncover industry "secrets." The assertion that any process is "foolproof" is definitely misguided, and if that's what you read in the topic's initial post (my poor use of "ensure" in the rephrasing), let me assure you I do not believe that. I feel like people aren't reading all the posts in this thread and are reiterating the same sentiment in lieu making contributions to an indicated topic. Also, I feel as though these misinterpretations of the rationale are reflections of their own (previous) failed, misguided attempts to receive precise instruction. Did I really write in a way that keeps everyone from seeing the "forest through the trees"?

Apparently, the click-bait title is backfiring spectacularly! It seems absolutely ridiculous to me that someone would ignore what they're hearing as they're creating anything in any audible medium. I don't think anyone that takes themselves seriously is actively trying to make "bad" sounding, poor quality music. To me, telling someone they need to "trust their ears" is blatantly insulting to a rational person. Of course I'm going to trust my ears... but thinking that's some novel, profound, or useful method of education indicates I should find a method of improving my self-confidence before approaching creative work.

Quote from: Dichotomy on January 14, 2016, 07:30:12 am
If I knew what "correct" sounded like, I'd just go [...] play with knobs until I got it right. The idea of "proper technique" would then be ludicrous!
This hasn't happened to you guys, right?

19
You Might Like... / Re: What producer blows your mind
« on: January 15, 2016, 09:38:07 pm »
Naten
"NYE - 2099" | "2077"

20
Mixing/Mastering / Psychoacoustic Modeling
« on: January 15, 2016, 09:11:58 pm »
The "fidelity of reality" is high (infinitely so?). For the human brain to interpret experiences out of synthetic creations, it must be presented with significant detail. This topic is a discussion of these details in the context of mixing.

Psychoacoustics - Wikipedia

21
Mixing/Mastering / Re: Don't trust your ears!
« on: January 15, 2016, 08:55:33 pm »
Quote from: Droptopus on January 15, 2016, 04:25:35 pm
... but that literally doesn't exist beyond anything you should have learned in your first 5-6 months of producing (provided you worked hard and did your research)
...
 I'm saving the obvious shit that I assume you know already because I'm taking you seriously (how to EQ, use compressors, meticulous sound selection etc)
I'm pickin' up what you're puttin' down, though you kinda left an unspoken "if you didn't hear about it in the first 5-6 months, you didn't work hard enough" connotation in there, which seems a tiny bit brash. Still, thanks for taking me seriously. +2

To summarize your fantastic points.
  • High-Shelf Equalization - most professional tracks aren't actually 'crisp' because of the high end but are crisp because there is good frequency seperation between sounds, as well as distinction using the stereo field..
  • Dedicated Sound Design / Building Sound Libraries - e.g. a kick sample... spending [significant] time on getting the right kick sound. So much so that a lot of producers have 2-3 kicks in a few different keys and tend to stick with them for most tracks.
  • Psychoacoustic Modeling - e.g. spending [significant] time getting the right noise risers, impacts & fx sounds. Most professional tracks have way [...] more of these layered into it than your brain cares to recognize, because it's all just variations of fuzz and static anyways. but it's huge for tension and release. Making these things sound right can be a very meticulous process especially with the amount of layering it takes to really maximize tension and release sometimes.
  • Composition / Instrumentation / Arrangement - writing a good song. In the end consumers don't even know what a good mix sounds like, they just know when they respond emotionally to a song, same as a good dish or painting. They aren't aware of the process.
  • Volume Maximization / Loudness - Gain staging and makin [elements] louder. Making sure your mix has energy and punch is important, as is making sure that your mix isn't smashed against a brickwall like a crushed bug.
  • Perspective - e.g. Get someone else to master your [music].
(expletives removed)

1 is very important to remember and ties into 3. A lot of armchair producers haven't found a resource that explains this properly. High frequencies travel differently through air than low ones... and when creating a mix, recreating this will add an audible structure. 2 ... Once "all" other technique has been elevated, this is THE differentiator between artists. A lot of beginners will develop an insatiable hunger for the latest VST and neglect the importance of this later by habit.

3 deserves it's own discussion. I don't think a topic exists on TPF specific to mixing / mastering separate from the (cookbook recipe filled) Sound Design board. I'm sort of proud someone brought it up on this topic. The "fidelity of reality" is high (infinitely so?). For the human brain to interpret experiences out of synthetic creations, it must be presented with significant detail.

4 really speaks to me. I started playing live instruments early on (7 or so), have been in bands, and compose for independent film. Something I've had a lot of success with is composing with deliberately simple instruments... it'll come out like video game music. If the music can stand out at this stage as catchy, I know I'm on the right track. I think this has a lot to do with 6. 5 ... For the most part it'll work itself out if "everything" else is well done. I think there's a little left to mention about using compressors: they can be used to stabilize a sound in mix (versus simple gain reduction).

Thanks for your contribution! +1

22
Rules & Announcements / Re: What does the "subsonic/sub bass" thing under my name mean?
« on: January 15, 2016, 09:00:29 am »
Quote from: Nico Hartt on January 15, 2016, 08:50:07 am
What's the honor count in my profile? Right now mine says it's at 3.

It's a count of many times "like" buttons have been pressed on your posts.
UPDATE: Per-post Like Buttons (1/8/2016)

23
Mixing/Mastering / Re: Tips for Clean Mix like Professionals
« on: January 15, 2016, 07:49:25 am »
Quote from: manducator on January 15, 2016, 07:41:03 am
https://lhsmusictech.files.wordpress.com/2014/01/the-art-of-mixing-a-visual-guide-to-recording-engineering-and-production-1997-david-gibson-mix-books.pdf
Thanks, reading is SO much faster than waiting for someone to speak all the words and cue visuals! +2

shhhh! it's a secret... : http://bfy.tw/3jy6 :D

24
Mixing/Mastering / Re: Tips for Clean Mix like Professionals
« on: January 15, 2016, 07:36:46 am »
Quote from: manducator on January 15, 2016, 07:13:17 am
This reminds me of this old video (1990?). He used almost the same graphics to explain mixing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TEjOdqZFvhY
Yea... I found that 'ol thing. I didn't post it because it was so far outside of the EDM scene. Psychoacoustics and the principles described haven't changed, of course. If you can get past the production value, there's a ton of information in the video. Here's the same, separated. https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLHE30Qq0gp9B9i8EZDzAE_DDMkOtdVImi

25
Finished Tracks / Re: Liam Bajic - Ryoko
« on: January 15, 2016, 05:51:39 am »
1st Listen:
Nice calm vibe. I like the stuttered voices. There's a moment at 3:06 that feels really special... great work.
Some of the ambient textures at the end feel like they point to a next track.. like this is one sentence in a paragraph. Maybe that's the arrangement recapitulating earlier themes in its own way... regardless, it's well done.

2nd Listen:
Some sounds at 1:03 made me take my headphones off.. I thought someone was knocking on a door somewhere. I'm not sure the musical statement you intended with them... if that's a style / artistic voice thing, keep it.

3rd Listen:
When you master this, I hope the details really shine through... the beginning & end sound like they'll be rich with layers.

26
Finished Tracks / Re: Justin Beiber - Mark My Words ( ♭ I J Λ N Remix ) | future bass vibes
« on: January 15, 2016, 05:23:03 am »
I came to give feedback... but there's no track! Please post a new link or a new version. :)

27
Finished Tracks / Re: Liam Bajic - Ryoko
« on: January 15, 2016, 05:18:26 am »
I came to give feedback... but there's no track! Please post a new link or a new version. :)

28
WIPs / Re: STORM (work in progress)
« on: January 15, 2016, 05:05:27 am »
Sounds like you're just starting out and experimenting with a lot of unique ideas. Keep it up! Dive in the deep end... compare to your favorite artists. IMO, you gotta really grab it by the horns if you're gonna go with that raw grungy sound..

If you haven't heard of AnGy KoRe, I'd take a tip from his sound.. [url]https://soundcloud.com/angy-kore[/ur]

29
WIPs / Re: Thoughts on the mix
« on: January 15, 2016, 04:56:00 am »
The structure of the track is really solid. The instruments sound raw... like they're too simple for the song. If you can invest in some higher fidelity instruments, I think it'll take it to the next level.

30
Mixing/Mastering / Re: Tips for Clean Mix like Professionals
« on: January 15, 2016, 03:34:40 am »
I hear some distinct stereo work in the Hardwell track, more stereo separation & panning than it seems you are acknowledging. Obviously no lead instruments are pushed far right or left... but many textures are. Maybe open it up in a DAW and listen to it in mono... then again in stereo with your eyes closed for contrast. If you care to, audition different parts with an X-Y plot and phase analysis (the intro and outtros can reveal what instruments were where later/earlier in the track).

Google "3d mixing"... or yourtube :
here's a neat one!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ftHcn5N3bB0
I wonder what program this is... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Bc5TYO_1Ik  :D

Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5