Author Topic: How should you layer supersaws?  (Read 42814 times)

ErikF

  • Sub Bass
  • *
  • Posts: 88
  • Honor: 6
  • Just tryin' to learn.
    • View Profile
How should you layer supersaws?
« on: January 08, 2016, 02:22:55 am »
I'm interested on how you guys mix a group of supersaws together. I mean, sometimes I'll slap a preset supersaw on top of my other supersaw without any surgical EQing or balancing. Is that normal/should I be doing that?

How do you guys do it?

Tiongcy

  • Sub Bass
  • *
  • Posts: 83
  • Honor: 4
    • Tiongcy
    • _Tiongcy
    • View Profile
Re: How should you layer supersaws?
« Reply #1 on: January 08, 2016, 02:36:01 am »
I would do some surgical eqing. I pick a main supersaw that will dominate the pswctrum then layer very thin ones that would fill gaps. Then would make them really wide.

Dap

  • Subsonic
  • Posts: 7
  • Honor: 2
    • da_vp
    • DAP000000
    • View Profile
Re: How should you layer supersaws?
« Reply #2 on: January 08, 2016, 02:41:41 am »
I normally make 2 or 3 layers, and I usually gave them their own space in an octave then I cut all the innecesary low end, and do some EQing depending on the characteristics of the layers and depending on how I want that particular supersaw to sound (very detuned, crisp and distorted, flat) and finally I do some compression to tight up the layers, little bit of saturation/distortion and some adjustments on the 200-500Hz area.

That's how I usually do it, but I would love to hear different aproaches on this, since most of the sounds are based on saws/supersaws.

Artic

  • Sub Bass
  • *
  • Posts: 48
  • Honor: 8
    • https://soundcloud.com/articofc
    • https://twitter.com/oliv3rsky
    • View Profile
Re: How should you layer supersaws?
« Reply #3 on: January 08, 2016, 04:03:15 am »
Well i make 1 chanel for the most "supersaw" i have, i make this to dont have much diference and all work togheter in harmony, i try to cut that area eq in 65Hz with a high gain, and the 150 Hz, or 200 Hz... and a short cut on low, this is work good to me because, i dont cut all low eq but i cut the line when i use in the bassline, and the supersaw need a bit of low frequencys to dont be so much high!

Take a look on this image, i cut in the fab filter that somethings area when i say for you, and in the channel i make more changes in the high, and med frequencys...

well i add some reverb in this channel but i make a individual reverb chanel to the other elements of the song!



False 9

  • Sub Bass
  • *
  • Posts: 22
  • Honor: 4
    • false-nine
    • View Profile
Re: How should you layer supersaws?
« Reply #4 on: January 08, 2016, 05:47:05 am »
Dont forget about the saw bass underneath! Its such a huge element that really helps fatten up the upper chords

Vidale

  • Sub Bass
  • *
  • Posts: 33
  • Honor: 4
    • vidalemusic
    • vidalemusic
    • View Profile
Re: How should you layer supersaws?
« Reply #5 on: January 08, 2016, 06:30:58 am »
Normally I grab about 5 saws (give or take, depends how fat I want it) and play around with them. Maybe I detune one that has 8 voices, then I leave 1 with only one voice. Maybe I take one multivoiced saw and get it one octave higher. Add a little bit of white noise, add reverb if necessary. It all depends on how do you want to use it and how it fits in the track.

After that I normally sculpt with EQ each layer to clean it up.


RylanT

  • Sub Bass
  • *
  • Posts: 39
  • Honor: 4
  • Progressive/Trance
    • RylanTaggartMusic
    • RylanTaggart
    • View Profile
    • Facebook Page
Re: How should you layer supersaws?
« Reply #6 on: January 08, 2016, 07:01:11 am »
Mine end up being 4 layers or so.

1 Main sound, usually a simple simple saw in Sylenth, 8 Voices, all 4 Osc. Bit of detune, half way on Stereo knob, full open cutoff. Cut out everything below 100hz, usually a bell cut around 200-300, sometimes a boost up high, then I high cut around 15Khz

1 Square wave,
not too wide

1 Layer of Sylenth white noise, low cut at 4000hz, high cut at 19Khz. Sometimes I add a flanger, 2 voices, retrig on, full on stereo knob

Another Saw, in U-HE Hive, Sylenth or ANA, but 100% on the stereo knob, detune slightly different than first layer.


Then for processing, I group them into one in Ableton, Cut out everything around 100hz ish (sometimes higher if it sounds right), NR Kickstart plugin for SC, Get rid of annoying frequencies in FabFilter Pro Q2, Glue compressor with a few db of makeup gain.

Then its sent to a Reverb (almost always Arts Acoustic), sidechained with a compressor from the midi that I used for the chords, add a NR Kickstart (at around 20%) to clean things up, then EQ: cut out everything below 200hz and above 10Khz.

DO NOT USE STEEP LP/HP FILTERS! Makes a huge difference.


Again, I'm no expert, please correct me if you think anything is weird, but thats what I normally do, and most of my tracks are heavy supersaw orientated.
Trance/Progressive Producer with releases on Elliptical Sun and Blue Soho Recordings
Facebook.com/RylanTaggartMusic
Soundcloud.com/RylanTaggartMusic

Kinesthetics

  • Sub Bass
  • *
  • Posts: 74
  • Honor: 22
  • Music with feeling
    • kinesthetics
    • _Kinesthetics
    • View Profile
    • Music by Kinesthetics
Re: How should you layer supersaws?
« Reply #7 on: January 08, 2016, 07:15:40 am »
I normally make 2 or 3 layers, and I usually gave them their own space in an octave then I cut all the innecesary low end, and do some EQing depending on the characteristics of the layers and depending on how I want that particular supersaw to sound (very detuned, crisp and distorted, flat) and finally I do some compression to tight up the layers, little bit of saturation/distortion and some adjustments on the 200-500Hz area.

That's how I usually do it, but I would love to hear different aproaches on this, since most of the sounds are based on saws/supersaws.

Pretty much this. Have one sound carry the main body of the supersaw patch, then use layers to adjust it's timbre, tone, and brightness. So, having thinned out, mixed in layers that sit an octave higher, or are more detuned and stereo-spread, or have a different tonality (such as square waves, which are actually a really good supersaw accompaniment). Just add parts to improve what you've already got/fill in the spectrum according to your objective.
Build it, and they will come.

Kenny Troy

  • Sub Bass
  • *
  • Posts: 138
  • Honor: 20
    • KennyTroy
    • TheKennyTroy
    • View Profile
    • Kenny Troy
Re: How should you layer supersaws?
« Reply #8 on: January 08, 2016, 03:47:02 pm »
Some generic tips:

1. Play multiple octaves on different layers (say two identical synths, one D#5 and one D#4)
2. Pan L/R
3. Detune Osc, place a LFO around 1% on that Osc

Here's a little insight as to what I do. This isn't an exact format, but maybe it will help show you what can be done

Let's say we're writing in D#5

Supersaw 1 - D#5, Pan 100% Left (55-60% volume)
Supersaw 1 - D#5, Pan 100% Right (55-60% volume)

Square Wave - D#5, Center

Supersaw 2 - D#4, Cener

That is just a general example showing how you can pan different layers and play at different octaves. I didn't include anything about incorporating EQing, cuts, boosts, plugins, effects, etc.

You can add a white noise layer for extra brightness, use a LFO on a detuned Osc as mentioned before (check YouTube on how to do this), so forth.

Honestly, the best thing to do is to sit in your DAW and try different things. There is no "golden rule" for creating these sounds.  But hey, if you want to have a reference... Showtek - Booyah. That sound is LOUD AF.



« Last Edit: January 08, 2016, 03:50:15 pm by Kenny Troy »

Axis

  • Sub Bass
  • *
  • Posts: 34
  • Honor: 11
    • axis
    • AxisMusik
    • View Profile
    • Facebook
Re: How should you layer supersaws?
« Reply #9 on: January 08, 2016, 04:42:34 pm »
Here are some tips that I posted in a different thread but I thought might be useful here:

1. When building layered stacks, use different instruments to play upper and lower harmonies. Using the same MIDI chords for all layers can muddy up the sound.

2. The chord notes/velocities are just as important as the sounds/instruments.  Sometimes dissonant harmonies add a very nice character, but it may or may not work with a specific sound/instrument.  Try changing velocities of "problematic" notes or removing them completely if it does not work.  Conversely, if a chord sounds too thin, adding more notes may work better than trying to fatten up the sound.

3. The bass sounds/layers are very important.  It's usually a good idea to group/process the bass layers separately from the supersaw.  Play around with the bass melody (add extra note transitions, make some notes longer than the chords, play bass notes where the chords are not playing, etc). This will make it more interesting.

4. When building layered supersaw stacks, getting the top end right is probably the hardest part (for me at least). Supersaws tend to be harsh in the high frequency domain, so cutting them off and adding white noise may help. Also, try adding a square layer - they tend to have a pleasant glow.

5. Ambience is very important. Adding reverb and vocal fills in the background can make a huge difference. When using a background reverb, don't forget to process it (saturation and EQ helps it stand out and sit better in the mix). While the usual jumping reverb trick works very well, sometimes it's better to add a wide supersaw layer in the background with a long release. Reverbs tend to sound muddy.

6. Increasing the velocity of the top notes may emphasize the lead melody. Alternatively, add a layer that only plays the topline melody. Try changing up the notes of the topline melody to make it sound more interesting.

7. Don't overdo it. Check every layer to make sure it improves the overall sound.

8. Make sure to adjust the levels of individual layers. Sometimes a layer playing at a low volume can add texture and thickness, but can really mess up the mix if it's too loud.

Hope this helps!

Lastisland

  • Subsonic
  • Posts: 12
  • Honor: 7
    • https://soundcloud.com/lastisland
    • https://twitter.com/RealLastIsland
    • View Profile
Re: How should you layer supersaws?
« Reply #10 on: January 08, 2016, 04:44:31 pm »
I always add a channel with a a heavily detune saw with 100% wet reverb with a short tail. For me this add a huge special sound without a long messy tail (which losses the clarity of a song)

Miles Dominic

  • Sub Bass
  • *
  • Posts: 124
  • Honor: 16
    • MilesDominic
    • MilesDominic
    • View Profile
Re: How should you layer supersaws?
« Reply #11 on: January 08, 2016, 05:21:20 pm »
I feel like people are overcomplicating making and layering saws a lot.
What I do is layer 3-4 sylenth patches with all variaties off undetune saws and detunede saws and perhaps, 1 oscillator of a retrig saw. I apply some saturation to the invidual layers, maybe Maserati. Then a lowcut between 200-350 hz depending on the rest of the track. Then route to a bus, add delay, reverb and maybe sausage fattener. Then I take out the highs above 10k with a 6-12 db slope and replace it with whitenoise.

auvic

  • Sub Bass
  • *
  • Posts: 47
  • Honor: 8
  • im a dragon
    • auvicmusic
    • auvicmusic
    • View Profile
Re: How should you layer supersaws?
« Reply #12 on: January 08, 2016, 05:29:00 pm »
I feel like people are overcomplicating making and layering saws a lot.

This is exactly how I feel and more.

Many producers layer to get their supersaws to sound 'thicker' or more 'powerful.' I've seen layers and layers from such unnecessary sounds--I find layering is important to bring the best qualities of unique (or has very distinguishable differences) sounds, but not solely to achieve louder and thicker sounds.

However, if there is a particular supersaw that requires layering in terms of careful and deliberate placement to expose the uniqueness of the layers, and not for the sake of loudness, then by all means.

Xan

  • Low Mid
  • **
  • Posts: 150
  • Honor: 18
    • View Profile
Re: How should you layer supersaws?
« Reply #13 on: January 08, 2016, 10:59:57 pm »
I always add a channel with a a heavily detune saw with 100% wet reverb with a short tail. For me this add a huge special sound without a long messy tail (which losses the clarity of a song)

This is good idea.
Another way is to bounce your layers to audio and manually cut out the reverb or shorten it where you don't want it. I do this and feel it makes the track much cleaner in the end.

Babasmas

  • Low Mid
  • **
  • Posts: 215
  • Honor: 32
  • I'm cool !
    • babasmasmoosic
    • babasmas
    • View Profile
    • wololoooo
Re: How should you layer supersaws?
« Reply #14 on: January 08, 2016, 11:00:47 pm »
I have max 2 layers, but only because I like to pan them.