Author Topic: 32bit vs. 64bit  (Read 37306 times)

BrienWithAnE

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32bit vs. 64bit
« on: January 06, 2016, 05:35:34 pm »
Wasn't sure where to post this, but I figured "gear" was the most technically inclined sub forum.

So this is a common question I think, but I don't really know the answer to it yet.  32 vs. 64 bit. What is the difference? What are the benefits? Why are people to excited to have their favorite VSTs come in 64bit versions?
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Hytyma

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Re: 32bit vs. 64bit
« Reply #1 on: January 06, 2016, 05:47:22 pm »
64bit applications are able to use more computer resources than 32bit stuff (meaning you can do things like run heavier RAM taxing plugins). Also, a lot of DAW's are 64bit now, and if your operating system and plugins are too, then everything will - to put it simply - just get along much nicer.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2016, 06:08:43 pm by Hytyma »
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deathy

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Re: 32bit vs. 64bit
« Reply #2 on: January 06, 2016, 05:56:54 pm »
If your software is 64 bit, then it will take better advantage of a modern CPU and can address a lot more memory.  However, 32 bit VSTs won't work in a 64 bit host.  So, you either gotta use somethin' like jBridge to wrap your 32 bit VSTs (which is a bit flakey, we're discussing this in another thread), or you just don't use the VST.


32 bit is dying tech, so it's only a matter of time... and chances are, we're not going to bother with 128 bit for a real long time, so we're going to be on 64 bit for a long while.
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Hytyma

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Re: 32bit vs. 64bit
« Reply #3 on: January 06, 2016, 06:11:10 pm »
However, 32 bit VSTs won't work in a 64 bit host.  So, you either gotta use somethin' like jBridge to wrap your 32 bit VSTs (which is a bit flakey, we're discussing this in another thread), or you just don't use the VST.

Or unless you're using FL Studio - 32bit plugins can be bridged to work in a 64bit version of FL (but not always in a stable way)
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Thyristor

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Re: 32bit vs. 64bit
« Reply #4 on: January 06, 2016, 06:16:20 pm »
However, 32 bit VSTs won't work in a 64 bit host.  So, you either gotta use somethin' like jBridge to wrap your 32 bit VSTs (which is a bit flakey, we're discussing this in another thread), or you just don't use the VST.

Or unless you're using FL Studio - 32bit plugins can be bridged to work in a 64bit version of FL (but not always in a stable way)


Harmor is a perfect example of not always being stable. i have presets i made using 32bit harmor that when used in 64 bit harmor they sound nothing alike. Pretty odd and sometimes super frustrating.

deathy

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Re: 32bit vs. 64bit
« Reply #5 on: January 06, 2016, 07:02:58 pm »
My piece of advice is to find out what your computer is running on (32 or 64 bit) Before installing your DAW of choice, because if you have per-say 32 Bit FL loaded on a 64 bit computer, your computer is going to have to work much harder to bridge the gap as opposed to if it was running 64 bit which is just right for it. Just some advice for beginners ^.^


That's not accurate.  32 bit software on a 64 bit OS/CPU is not going to make more work for your CPU, and 64 bit software isn't even going to run on a 32 bit OS/CPU.  (Not that you can find a 32 bit CPU any more, and haven't been able to for a good decade or so.) 


At the level where software actually executes, the machine language, the 64 bit CPUs still have full support for the 32 bit operands... they don't have to do any translation or anything like that.  The difference between the 32 bit and 64 bit operands is the size of the registers that it uses - essentially, how wide a "word" is.


However, 32 bit software running on a 64 bit CPU will mean that your CPU isn't being fully utilized - when a 64 bit CPU does a math operation, it is capable of twice as much accuracy as a 32 bit CPU (assuming you're working in floating point, which most internal audio production is these days - if your DAW is NOT internally floating point, it's probably time to retire it).  That accuracy is nice, but not terribly important... especially since your FP mixing is 32 bit... the CPU will have the extra width for accuracy while it's doing the math, but once it stores the result into memory, it's going to chop most of that accuracy off.


Now, if you're not doing FP math, then a 64 bit CPU can work with much larger numbers, but this is not something that means anything in audio production.


The biggest hard difference between 32 bit and 64 bit, as it related to audio production, is how much memory you can address.  At a hardware level, there's bus speed and some other things as well, but you aren't using a 32 bit CPU, even if you're running a 32 bit OS on top of it... 32 bit CPUs are soooo last millenium.   ;)
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sleepy

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Re: 32bit vs. 64bit
« Reply #6 on: January 06, 2016, 08:45:58 pm »
No one's mentioned that, unless you have more than 4GB of RAM available, it doesn't matter if you have 64 bit programs. You'd still be limited to the same amount of memory you'd have if you were using 32 bit programs.

You'd probably be better off learning from the people who actually make the software though.

If you're on Ableton, here you go:
https://www.ableton.com/en/help/article/64bit-myths-facts/

If you're on FL Studio, which treats this issue a bit differently, here you go:
https://support.image-line.com/knowledgebase/base.php?id=34&ans=415

Logic:
https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202016

Whatever else:
http://www.google.com/

I had issues with this recently and the FL and Ableton links are what helped me understand. Might help even if you're not using either of those DAWs. Something relevant to me that might help others who can't be bothered to upgrade to FL 11, 12, etc: FL 10 and lower doesn't have a 64 bit version, but it does come with "FL (extended memory)" or something in the image-line folder that might help with some CPU issues you might have. It worked for me when FL couldn't handle one of my projects.

Hope this helps!

Mat_Zo

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Re: 32bit vs. 64bit
« Reply #7 on: January 06, 2016, 09:29:44 pm »
Basically, 64bit daws and plugins won't crash as much

Babasmas

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Re: 32bit vs. 64bit
« Reply #8 on: January 06, 2016, 09:49:02 pm »
Basically, 64bit daws and plugins won't crash as much
depends if the daw is up to date or stable tho...

FL 12 64 bits was pretty much unstable before the 12.2 version. So it was not recommanded to work with it.

BrienWithAnE

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Re: 32bit vs. 64bit
« Reply #9 on: January 06, 2016, 10:10:37 pm »
Thank you everybody!

I certainly could do with FL crashing a bit less....
~ BrienWithAnE

chezek

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Re: 32bit vs. 64bit
« Reply #10 on: January 06, 2016, 10:16:38 pm »
I like to keep it simple and just use 32-bit DAW and VSTs so I don't have to jBridge anything lol.

Luke Bond

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Re: 32bit vs. 64bit
« Reply #11 on: January 06, 2016, 10:38:28 pm »
Basically a 32 Bit DAW can only address a maximum of up to 4GB of ram, so if your computer has more than that, your DAW won't use the rest. 64-bit on the other hand can handle up to 128GB so will make more use of the resources you have available.

You only really see a big different with it if you're using a sampler with large sample libraries like Kontakt which dumps them into the RAM.

CTRL-S

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Re: 32bit vs. 64bit
« Reply #12 on: January 06, 2016, 10:50:35 pm »
I used to run 32 bit...

Now, I'm running a 64bit system (along with some outboard gear.) I've had fewer crashes and definitely able to run more stuff at once. Some plugs are jbridged, but I try to stay away from them. The jbridge stuff tends to be unstable...

At this point I'm happy to run native 64bit legit installs of my core tools. Always nice to see an old friend come to 64 bit though :)

khs_anders

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Re: 32bit vs. 64bit
« Reply #13 on: January 07, 2016, 07:45:12 am »
However, 32 bit software running on a 64 bit CPU will mean that your CPU isn't being fully utilized - when a 64 bit CPU does a math operation, it is capable of twice as much accuracy as a 32 bit CPU (assuming you're working in floating point, which most internal audio production is these days - if your DAW is NOT internally floating point, it's probably time to retire it).  That accuracy is nice, but not terribly important... especially since your FP mixing is 32 bit... the CPU will have the extra width for accuracy while it's doing the math, but once it stores the result into memory, it's going to chop most of that accuracy off.

This is not quite correct either. The floating point parts of the 32 bit CPUs have been handling 64 (and 80) bit floats for quite some time, I think as far back as the 386DX and beyond (i.e. back in the 80's).

MifzanHerawan

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Re: 32bit vs. 64bit
« Reply #14 on: January 07, 2016, 01:54:45 pm »
If your software is 64 bit, then it will take better advantage of a modern CPU and can address a lot more memory.  However, 32 bit VSTs won't work in a 64 bit host.  So, you either gotta use somethin' like jBridge to wrap your 32 bit VSTs (which is a bit flakey, we're discussing this in another thread), or you just don't use the VST.


32 bit is dying tech, so it's only a matter of time... and chances are, we're not going to bother with 128 bit for a real long time, so we're going to be on 64 bit for a long while.

i thought it was the other way around (64 can't run on 32), just realized it now that i was wrong hahaha
there are a few lovely vst that only runs in 32 though :(