Author Topic: Steps to achieve loudness  (Read 27676 times)

ErikF

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Re: Steps to achieve loudness
« Reply #15 on: April 22, 2016, 12:23:12 am »
Put Fabfilter - PRO L on master and boost it for about 30 db .

Exactly.

TRSCity

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Re: Steps to achieve loudness
« Reply #16 on: April 29, 2016, 10:32:57 am »
Before I start to mix my tracks I put Limiter on the master bus with about + 8 or +10 db gain (i use Pro-L for this task). Then I turn down the volume on all channels and start to gradually increase volume on Kick so it peaks about -6/-8db,  snare ( bit lower then kick), percs (lower than snare), hats etc. So basically I start with the drums and then move to the Bass, Leads (I layer them and put in one bus so its easier to mix with other sounds). When I'm happy with the levels I use panning, eq (usually mid/side) and a bit of compression/saturation/distortion depending on what I want to achieve. After that I send some groups or sounds to the bus sends where I use reverbs, delays and distortion with wide stereo imager at the end and eq so it don't use that much our precious mids. And when Im happy with the balance of my mix I turn of the limiter and export my mixdown. In mastering session I use pretty basic chain: Ableton's glue compressor, EQ 8 (again with mid/side), AOM Limiter or sometimes 3x instances of Pro-L where 2 of them are with transparent settings and 3rd one is with some bit of clipping. I use +3 or +4db gain on every instance of limiter because I found it better to use it like that than gaining extreme volume in one instance of limiter. At the end my mix is about 5-6-7 RMS and Im happy with loudness. Of course there is no magic answer but try to find balance between sounds in the mix this is how I make my tracks sound pretty loud.

Cheers,
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Re: Steps to achieve loudness
« Reply #17 on: April 30, 2016, 06:53:38 am »
The less you have going on at once the louder you can push a limiter/utility/whatever you use, and if you have more going on the less loud it can be. That's why people lime Diplo/A-Track have one synth and drums and it's super loud while someone with more going on like Jamie xx will tend to be much quieter.
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Re: Steps to achieve loudness
« Reply #18 on: April 30, 2016, 04:09:47 pm »
The less you have going on at once the louder you can push a limiter/utility/whatever you use, and if you have more going on the less loud it can be. That's why people lime Diplo/A-Track have one synth and drums and it's super loud while someone with more going on like Jamie xx will tend to be much quieter.

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slimer

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Re: Steps to achieve loudness
« Reply #19 on: May 02, 2016, 09:16:15 am »
Best way to get loudness is through saturation in small amounts.

Pretty much every sound in my tracks have a saturator with soft clipping on which is acting as a limiter. I group all of my tracks into synths, basses, sub, drums etc. As well as saturating each track individually, I'll have one on the group channel too and feed that into a saturator a few db, just to squash things down a little. (I'll usually do this step last and fine tune it when I'm doing my final mixdown. I end up turning things up in the group that I feel aren't loud enough and they're being fed into the saturator too hard).

I'll also get my kick and snare sitting at 0db using saturation. I tried this for the first time with my last few tracks and it made mastering really easy for me. I'd make sure that the saturator was trimming a few db off my kick and snare without affecting the sound.

The more 'sausaged' your mix is before you it reaches your mastering chain, the more loudness you can get from it. You have to be really careful with saturation cause it's easy for your mix to sound completely flat and squashed but when it's used in small amounts, it's really helpful for getting loudness.

The built-in Ableton saturation is absolutely so powerful and overlooked. A lot of people that want to know what's "missing" from their mix to a professional mix (especially in popular EDM genres nowadays) are actually missing an assload of saturation. It allows you to saturate specific frequencies on whatever you slap it on. It also really helps sub bass cut through small speakers and the like.



There's a note frequency chart that is commonly passed around for sub bass. If you saturate a couple octave frequencies up from your sub bass on a couple different instances of the saturator you'll see a massive difference in the power it's producing. a popular festival trap producer NGHTMRE recently showed in a Q&A that he uses tons of saturation, even on the master channel.

manducator

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Re: Steps to achieve loudness
« Reply #20 on: May 12, 2016, 06:28:57 pm »
Parallel processing can be a big part to get loudness:

Crush your mix to death with a compressor and blend this sound with the uncompressed sound.

Or use a clipper on a whole track (yes, a whole track) and blend that signal with the unclipped signal.

It can give you a massive sound.

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Re: Steps to achieve loudness
« Reply #21 on: May 12, 2016, 07:19:24 pm »
Parallel processing can be a big part to get loudness:

Crush your mix to death with a compressor and blend this sound with the uncompressed sound.

Or use a clipper on a whole track (yes, a whole track) and blend that signal with the unclipped signal.

It can give you a massive sound.
parallel the entire track?


You must be mad......
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Miles Dominic

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Re: Steps to achieve loudness
« Reply #22 on: May 12, 2016, 10:44:57 pm »
Whats up with all this overcomplicating things? For my tracks I just make sure all the levels are mixed properly. If some instruments, samples or synths have peaks I see if they're too large. If they are, I apply compression or some bitcrush to tame the peaks, but other than that, achieving loudness is just getting your levels right. If you have that right you can turn up the limiter get professional loudness.

Marrow Machines

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Re: Steps to achieve loudness
« Reply #23 on: May 12, 2016, 11:43:40 pm »
Whats up with all this overcomplicating things? For my tracks I just make sure all the levels are mixed properly. If some instruments, samples or synths have peaks I see if they're too large. If they are, I apply compression or some bitcrush to tame the peaks, but other than that, achieving loudness is just getting your levels right. If you have that right you can turn up the limiter get professional loudness.

parallel compression is life homie.

parallel your track, and it's daaaaaaaaaaaaank. Especially with that tape distortion.
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manducator

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Re: Steps to achieve loudness
« Reply #24 on: May 13, 2016, 05:35:53 am »
parallel the entire track?


You must be mad......

Allow me to demonstrate with a sound example:

https://soundcloud.com/silent_frill/reaper-parallel-clip-test

This is a downloadable 24-bit wave file. First 8 bars are unprocessed, next 8 bars are parallel clipped with the master brickwall preset from LVC's clipshifter. I set the wet knob to 40%, so 60 % is dry sound.

The BPM of the song is 115, so you can loop the different parts if you want.

The loudest peaks of the first (unprocessed) part is -0.7 dBFS (left) and -0.3 dBFS (right).
The loudest peaks of the second (parallel clipped) part is -3.2 dBFS (left) and -2.9 dBFS (right).

According to the RMS meter of SpanPLUS, both parts are equally loud but the peaks of the parallel clipped part are about 2.5 dB lower, allowing me to turn up the volume more before peaks are driven into a limiter.

Looking forward to comments on this technique.
Do you think the sound quality differs too much between both parts to justify this way of working?
« Last Edit: May 13, 2016, 06:10:05 am by manducator »

sinnergy

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Re: Steps to achieve loudness
« Reply #25 on: May 13, 2016, 05:51:05 am »
Loudness is a finnicky thing, and getting the right kind of loudness is hard.

As someone who makes heavy bass music, I'm always after that Zomboy loudness. There is a clear difference between how an Excision or Barely Alive track sounds and a Zomboy track in their loudness. I want it to be loud, clean and punchy, not squashed and flat. Zomboy's stuff never sounds squashed to me, but an excision/barely alive track always has that over compressed, pushed to hard sound to it, its hard to describe. As if, it was forced to be loud rather than just being so.

Although live on a big system, this discrepancy matters less, but its still noticeable.




Miles Dominic

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Re: Steps to achieve loudness
« Reply #26 on: May 13, 2016, 07:28:58 am »
Whats up with all this overcomplicating things? For my tracks I just make sure all the levels are mixed properly. If some instruments, samples or synths have peaks I see if they're too large. If they are, I apply compression or some bitcrush to tame the peaks, but other than that, achieving loudness is just getting your levels right. If you have that right you can turn up the limiter get professional loudness.

parallel compression is life homie.

parallel your track, and it's daaaaaaaaaaaaank. Especially with that tape distortion.

Why would u parallel compress ur master. Wtf.. I think u're seriously making things complicated for no reason. There's no reason to do that if you fix the dynamics in the mix imo.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2016, 07:32:29 am by Miles Dominic »

Marrow Machines

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Re: Steps to achieve loudness
« Reply #27 on: May 13, 2016, 04:26:24 pm »
Whats up with all this overcomplicating things? For my tracks I just make sure all the levels are mixed properly. If some instruments, samples or synths have peaks I see if they're too large. If they are, I apply compression or some bitcrush to tame the peaks, but other than that, achieving loudness is just getting your levels right. If you have that right you can turn up the limiter get professional loudness.

parallel compression is life homie.

parallel your track, and it's daaaaaaaaaaaaank. Especially with that tape distortion.

Why would u parallel compress ur master. Wtf.. I think u're seriously making things complicated for no reason. There's no reason to do that if you fix the dynamics in the mix imo.

Parallel tracks are not even that complicated at all lol It's just throwing in the same signal over another channel and compressing the hell out of it, then blending it with the volume fader. EZ, simple, and very elementary.

Parallel compression is a great tool to use even on individual channels on your mix(i put that shit on my druuuuuuums), and has been around for a while...........this isn't any thing new... Literally no different than adding layers.

It's also does not really fix any thing, it's to add. It's dank dude, you should try it, or not. I really don't give a shit.

parallel the entire track?


You must be mad......

Allow me to demonstrate with a sound example:

https://soundcloud.com/silent_frill/reaper-parallel-clip-test

This is a downloadable 24-bit wave file. First 8 bars are unprocessed, next 8 bars are parallel clipped with the master brickwall preset from LVC's clipshifter. I set the wet knob to 40%, so 60 % is dry sound.

The BPM of the song is 115, so you can loop the different parts if you want.

The loudest peaks of the first (unprocessed) part is -0.7 dBFS (left) and -0.3 dBFS (right).
The loudest peaks of the second (parallel clipped) part is -3.2 dBFS (left) and -2.9 dBFS (right).

According to the RMS meter of SpanPLUS, both parts are equally loud but the peaks of the parallel clipped part are about 2.5 dB lower, allowing me to turn up the volume more before peaks are driven into a limiter.

Looking forward to comments on this technique.
Do you think the sound quality differs too much between both parts to justify this way of working?


I have attempted doing this at an earlier point in my career, but now i have a better understanding of the production process and could probably apply it better.

On consume speakers, i didn't hear one bit of difference between those two loops.

The idea is quite alluring however....My biggest problem is that, i am not sure that EVERYTHING needs to be brought together for that particular reason in the mix.

I think it might be best suited for drum channels being summed into a drum group and then parallel compressed.


You do bring up an interesting point about how you get a lower signal, but achieve the same loudness perspective.



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manducator

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Re: Steps to achieve loudness
« Reply #28 on: May 13, 2016, 07:16:16 pm »
On consume speakers, i didn't hear one bit of difference between those two loops.

That's great, because the increase in headroom is definitely there. I just wanted someone else to doublecheck me.

My biggest problem is that, i am not sure that EVERYTHING needs to be brought together for that particular reason in the mix.

True. Tbh, I don't use this method on my own music but I saw the technique in a Udemy course. I would apply it if someone asked me to make their songs super loud. Mine aren't.

There is the posssibility to high pass the clipped track, not applying clipping to the low frequencies. There are more possibilities of course.

I think it might be best suited for drum channels being summed into a drum group and then parallel compressed.

Of course. New York compression is used since the 70's.

You do bring up an interesting point about how you get a lower signal, but achieve the same loudness perspective.

Thanks, mission accomplished.

Marrow Machines

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Re: Steps to achieve loudness
« Reply #29 on: May 13, 2016, 09:12:45 pm »
On consume speakers, i didn't hear one bit of difference between those two loops.

That's great, because the increase in headroom is definitely there. I just wanted someone else to doublecheck me.

My biggest problem is that, i am not sure that EVERYTHING needs to be brought together for that particular reason in the mix.

True. Tbh, I don't use this method on my own music but I saw the technique in a Udemy course. I would apply it if someone asked me to make their songs super loud. Mine aren't.

There is the posssibility to high pass the clipped track, not applying clipping to the low frequencies. There are more possibilities of course.

I think it might be best suited for drum channels being summed into a drum group and then parallel compressed.

Of course. New York compression is used since the 70's.

You do bring up an interesting point about how you get a lower signal, but achieve the same loudness perspective.

Thanks, mission accomplished.

Bird up.

One thing technique i do use on my parallel compression is to band pass that particular channel. It seems like the sub and ultra high end gets compressed way to much, so i just realize more of what's available.

Then I process that track as if it's a separate layer in the mix.

It's really dank af tho.
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