Author Topic: Playing Instruments Vs Producing Music (Read 12515 times)

Lydian · « **on:** March 24, 2016, 05:00:17 am »

For those of you who play instruments which one do you think is most challenging and why?

Ninth Parallel · « **Reply #1 on:** March 24, 2016, 05:24:59 am »

Looking forward to seeing this debate unfold - I find this question hard to answer, quantitatively at least... Producing music and playing tangible instruments both involve an insane amount of passion, process, dedication, & refined technique, all of which are required for true artistic mastery in any field.

At the time of writing, I've been playing piano for around 12-13 years and I found it hard to start producing at first. It's a totally different monster with a totally different set of rules, like any extremely complicated instrument you could pick up and mess around with. Anyone can play the piano, anyone can produce music. When the argument is brought up that "anyone can make music on a computer", I bring up the argument that "anyone can make bad music on a computer", just like "anyone" can play something terrible on a piano. In both cases, the dedication to the craft makes all the difference.

So this being said, I think the only right way to measure and compare both is to take into account the time and work involved in mastering the two, which, imo, is the same for both.

Vera · « **Reply #2 on:** March 24, 2016, 06:17:00 am »

I'm a pianist/guitarist/drummer(/vocalist but meh).

Drums for 5 years
Piano for 5 years
Guitar for 1 year.

Now the answer to your question is seriously difficult to arrive to, since there are a few stages of learning an instrument.. The first stage for me is learning enough to play something that sounds at least pleasant, for me that's chords I guess. The second stage IMO is to be able to spice it up a little (7ths, suspended chords etc.) and improvise. The third stage is being able to convey an emotion in what you play. If you were to add a fourth it'd be to just build on everything and become more impressive lol.

Now, to use that to answer the question, drums was really easy to be able to get something going. Piano took a little longer to learn all the chords + a basic knowledge of progressions and stuff. Guitar I learnt basics and chords very quickly, probably since I already had a chordal knowledge. Second stage on drums took longer than it did on piano, and longer than guitar. Then I hit a brick wall with drums. I reached a point where I found it insanely hard to progress - and it's not because I was really good, I'm still pretty crap. Piano on the other hand, progress skyrocketed. Guitar? Not so much (but maybe if I give it a bit more time).

At the moment I'd say guitar is difficult (to play well enough to impress people), but that's probably just cause I'm a pianist. You get me?

**********EDIT: I misinterpreted the question but I'm far to lazy to change it all. Anywho, I think producing is more challenging because it requires instrumental knowledge in the first place. I don't think you'd get that far if you tried to produce without ever playing an instrument (but there are exceptions).

Lydian · « **Reply #3 on:** March 24, 2016, 06:18:40 am »

Quote from: Ninth Parallel on March 24, 2016, 05:24:59 am

Looking forward to seeing this debate unfold - I find this question hard to answer, quantitatively at least... Producing music and playing tangible instruments both involve an insane amount of passion, process, dedication, & refined technique, all of which are required for true artistic mastery in any field.

At the time of writing, I've been playing piano for around 12-13 years and I found it hard to start producing at first. It's a totally different monster with a totally different set of rules, like any extremely complicated instrument you could pick up and mess around with. Anyone can play the piano, anyone can produce music. When the argument is brought up that "anyone can make music on a computer", I bring up the argument that "anyone can make bad music on a computer", just like "anyone" can play something terrible on a piano. In both cases, the dedication to the craft makes all the difference.

So this being said, I think the only right way to measure and compare both is to take into account the time and work involved in mastering the two, which, imo, is the same for both.

Wow that's a long time playing piano!

I agree that it's easy to produce or play an instrument badly. I found that there were a lot of similarities between both producing and playing an instrument though.

In the same way that getting stuck while producing can be frustrating I've also gone through the same feeling when trying to play something on an instrument that was beyond my capabilities to do so.

In the same way that some people open too many projects and never finish producing tracks there are a lot of instrumentalists who can play 8 bars of a song but aren't able to play the entire thing.

In the same way that you have to listen to something thousands of times while producing you have to listen to the music your learning thousands of times if you're learning it on an instrument via repetition.

In the same way that you sound like crap on an instrument for a long time you go through the same thing with producing. (Although in my experience the producing curve is much more steep)

So many similarities. I think I'm still going to have to say that producing is harder though. Only because of there being so many more elements involved. (Mixing, Arranging, Composition, Creativity Etc...)

Quote

Now the answer to your question is seriously difficult to arrive to, since there are a few stages of learning an instrument.. The first stage for me is learning enough to play something that sounds at least pleasant, for me that's chords I guess. The second stage IMO is to be able to spice it up a little (7ths, suspended chords etc.) and improvise. The third stage is being able to convey an emotion in what you play. If you were to add a fourth it'd be to just build on everything and become more impressive lol.

Now, to use that to answer the question, drums was really easy to be able to get something going. Piano took a little longer to learn all the chords + a basic knowledge of progressions and stuff. Guitar I learnt basics and chords very quickly, probably since I already had a chordal knowledge. Second stage on drums took longer than it did on piano, and longer than guitar. Then I hit a brick wall with drums. I reached a point where I found it insanely hard to progress - and it's not because I was really good, I'm still pretty crap. Piano on the other hand, progress skyrocketed. Guitar? Not so much (but maybe if I give it a bit more time).

At the moment I'd say guitar is difficult (to play well enough to impress people), but that's probably just cause I'm a pianist. You get me?

I definitely see where you're coming from. All the instruments have different learning curves. When it comes to producing though I feel like that learning curve is just so much more steep. I feel like it takes a longer time to get good at producing than it does to get good at an instrument.

Arktopolis · « **Reply #4 on:** March 24, 2016, 06:39:27 am »

EDIT: I guess I should also state my background! I've been playing the piano for about 15 years, and the guitar for almost as long.

I like to think that what is meant by "producing" includes playing instruments, so in that sense producing is more challenging

Or if we exclude playing instruments from the definition, at least it includes simulating real instruments, doesn't it? That's got to be at least as challenging.

But I sort of agree with Ninth, if you understand the word challenging as the height of the skill ceiling, then the answer is probably neither. If the question is how much you can DO with it, I think producing is more challenging. As an analogy: is the game of go more challenging than chess because there are more possible games? A computer just opens such a vast world of musical possibilities, that playing an instrument starts to feel like like tic-tac-toe to me.

Lydian · « **Reply #5 on:** March 24, 2016, 06:54:14 am »

Quote from: Arktopolis on March 24, 2016, 06:39:27 am

I like to think that what is meant by "producing" includes playing instruments, so in that sense producing is more challenging Or if we exclude playing instruments from the definition, at least it includes simulating real instruments, doesn't it? That's got to be at least as challenging.

But I sort of agree with Ninth, if you understand the word challenging as the height of the skill ceiling, then the answer is probably neither. If the question is how much you can DO with it, I think producing is more challenging. As an analogy: is the game of go more challenging than chess because there are more possible games? A computer just opens such a vast world of musical possibilities, that playing an instrument starts feel like like tic-tac-toe to me.

Yeah to be honest that's part of what attracted me to producing in the first place. There's so many more possibilities that you have to choose from whereas guitar at a point started to become highly limiting when it came to expressing myself musically. Piano offers more flexibility harmonically but I also found to be limiting melodically from a phrasing point of view.

You've also opened up a bit of a contradiction to the question in the first place. Producing (Depending on what genre) can involve playing instruments. So what the heck is the difference?

To me playing an instrument doesn't really involve mixing, arrangement, composition and etc... I mean... it can be used as a tool for the latter but you don't need to be able to compose music to play an instrument you get me?

Producing, on the other hand, is the same but different. You don't need to be able to play an instrument in order to produce music. There are a lot of producers in the progressive metal scene like Sithu Aye for example who can't play drums for his life but is able to write for them and produce them absolutely beautifully.

Mussar · « **Reply #6 on:** March 24, 2016, 05:04:55 pm »

I think it's gonna be a much more subjective answer than any one person would like it to be.

Personally, I found it easier to step in the production role than it was to pick up an instrument. I'm learning Piano and Guitar now, but for the first two and a half years I was just doing synths and samples. I felt more comfortable with my computer, and everything just sort of flowed naturally. Learning a DAW was like learning a new video game, which helped a lot.

I feel like learning an instrument requires more physicality to master, and producing a track requires more intellectual investment to master - which isn't to say either one lacks the other or that either is inferior, just that the methods of acquisition are suited to everyone at differing levels of ease.

Marrow Machines · « **Reply #7 on:** March 24, 2016, 10:01:02 pm »

You gotta practice and you gotta invest into quality equipment, and continue to practice.

You can buy relatively cheap stuff and sit and complain as to why you're not getting the results you want.

Every thing else has been said from the emotional to the technical concepts.

You just have to grind it out and continue to progress in quality (skills and equipment).

I'd bury my head deep into skills though if i had to choose one. The equipment you choose helps refine skills in ways.

mrotsdnaS - eduraD · « **Reply #8 on:** March 28, 2016, 02:42:24 am »

Quote from: Marrow Machines on March 24, 2016, 10:01:02 pm

You gotta practice and you gotta invest into quality equipment, and continue to practice.

You can buy relatively cheap stuff and sit and complain as to why you're not getting the results you want.

Every thing else has been said from the emotional to the technical concepts.

You just have to grind it out and continue to progress in quality (skills and equipment).

I'd bury my head deep into skills though if i had to choose one. The equipment you choose helps refine skills in ways.

I totally agree with you on the importance of practice, but I can't say I feel the same about needing to invest in quality equipment. There are plenty of great musicians and producers that are successful with a minimalist approach to gear. Plenty of relatively inexpensive instruments and setups that can sound phenomenal in the right musician's hands and imo its not as much what you have as it is what you can do with it. The same principal can apply to production, great sounding records and songs have been made on equipment that would make your average audiophile cringe

Marrow Machines · « **Reply #9 on:** March 28, 2016, 05:50:07 am »

Quote from: mrotsdnaS - eduraD on March 28, 2016, 02:42:24 am

Quote from: Marrow Machines on March 24, 2016, 10:01:02 pm
You gotta practice and you gotta invest into quality equipment, and continue to practice.

You can buy relatively cheap stuff and sit and complain as to why you're not getting the results you want.

Every thing else has been said from the emotional to the technical concepts.

You just have to grind it out and continue to progress in quality (skills and equipment).

I'd bury my head deep into skills though if i had to choose one. The equipment you choose helps refine skills in ways.

I totally agree with you on the importance of practice, but I can't say I feel the same about needing to invest in quality equipment. There are plenty of great musicians and producers that are successful with a minimalist approach to gear. Plenty of relatively inexpensive instruments and setups that can sound phenomenal in the right musician's hands and imo its not as much what you have as it is what you can do with it. The same principal can apply to production, great sounding records and songs have been made on equipment that would make your average audiophile cringe

You're right when it comes to music, but when you need to make decisions that will effect the overall sound of the song, then equipment matters.

The different between steel strings and flat wound strings on a bass, what type of bass, what type of cab and amp do effect the sound and the mood of the song.

Also, if you spend a minimum amount of money towards speakers, you won't get the same results as some one who has literally built a space dedicated towards the art of mixing. So, I will still defend my statement towards investing in quality gear. You shouldn't chase the high of equipment, but you'll need some standard equipment if you expect to take this further into a career.

Understanding your equipment and room limitations is the start of using your ears.

I mean, why do they even make such expensive equipment if you can't expect better quality?

But, you have to decide what you want for yourself.

Suggesting to some one that "oh you shouldn't aim for high aspirations" is selling yourself short and the person you're talking to.

Being realistic and asking about how far you/they want to go down the rabbit hole is what should be talked about more.

I am also talking about the MINIMUM towards a studio set up, not having all this outbound gear and what not. You need at least a specific prince range and size of speakers to hear what's going on. Same goes for mixing headphones.

So, I understand the importance of the choice in gear and the current level of producer/musician, but i'll never say that it doesn't matter as much as you think it does. Because it really does influence the sound you choose to make and the decisions you make whilst mixing.

Final Kindgom · « **Reply #10 on:** March 29, 2016, 05:22:39 pm »

Piano for 8 years, guitar on and off for 5 or 6, flute on and off for 6 years, and I was a drummer for 4 years.

Playing an instrument is more challenging in that you'd be combining a physical process with a mental one. With producing at a fundamental level, you're not engaging your hands (and legs in the case of drumming) and brain at the same time in real time. You're just clicking and moving the mouse, periodically adding musical ideas. On an intermediate level when you have equipment that enables you to play instruments, you're only engaging in that hand-eye-brain coordination maybe 20 minutes out of your entire session, if that. The rest of the time, you're "problem solving" at the mixing stage because you're trying to achieve a certain sound and bring all those ideas together into one cohesive track.

With playing an instrument, the goal is to play something in real time. Doing that requires a lot of practice because the brain is trying to register the notes on the sheet music or remember which note to play next while your hands are trying to respond with the appropriate action at the right time. Not only that but you have to keep time yourself, so that's another process your brain has to handle (this is assuming you're not using a metronome, but even then you have to be paying attention to the click while playing).

Truthfully I'm probably biased because I was a musician before I got into producing, and the production process is definitely easier when you've played an instrument.

FarleyCZ · « **Reply #11 on:** March 30, 2016, 12:18:43 am »

I totally agree with Final Kingdom, but from the other point of view. Both producing and playing instrument are tough tasks, but playing instrument is more challenging due to that physical demands. I'm total loser at this. I learned how piano works, where are the different scales, how to press chords in them, but I'm simply not capable of learning to play any song without doing some kind of clumbsy mistake. No matter how many years I throw into it. Not even speaking about my quite funny tries to pick up a quitar.

...while reading this thread, seeing all the multi-instrumentalists here, I wonder if this actually makes me less of a producer.

Marrow Machines · « **Reply #12 on:** March 30, 2016, 12:21:52 am »

Quote from: FarleyCZ on March 30, 2016, 12:18:43 am

...while reading this thread, seeing all the multi-instrumentalists here, I wonder if this actually makes me less of a producer.

No, because the bias multi-instrumentalist have will never have them be a good producer.

Each people are special to what they bring to the table, so you can use what you know with other things. but some times people are just made for what they do or get told to do.

Pzychosis · « **Reply #13 on:** March 30, 2016, 01:07:07 am »

I would say it really depends on who you are, how you learn, and what you know. I start with producing, but then I went on to learn Piano blues improvisationist style (went on to understand how to play however I feel), and violin. Honestly, I would say, for me, Music production takes a lot more thinking on the process and creating, as the the instruments just kind of came naturally to me. But they both are hard work in learning, but from there, it all comes down to the person. :/

toughenough6 · « **Reply #14 on:** April 07, 2016, 07:05:00 pm »

I think you've really gotta find the bridge between the two.

Play guitar into your projects and process that, play piano or midi into soft synths or (if you've got them) hardware synths. Playing instruments is always going to be "easier" to come up with something more complex.

For example: Recently I was trying to learn how to program some realistic sounding drum patterns with swing. I researched the idea of swing and it was a lot of work getting the idea down well enough for me to be able to paint in notes at the right places to make it sound organic. It's much easier for me to play in rhythms via midi and then dissect where they ended up and (after quantizing) understand what swing is actually supposed to do.

Producing is definitely much more powerful due to the ability to write melody lines that you are physically incapable of playing (due to skill). However, it's also a lot harder (IMO) to be creative. When I'm sitting in my DAW I'm thinking about what key I'm in and the chord progression and I end up making much more generic sounding stuff. It's definitely possible to get over it but producing gives me a much more robotic sound when it comes to writing music compared to actual instrument playing.

Author Topic: Playing Instruments Vs Producing Music (Read 12515 times)

Lydian

Playing Instruments Vs Producing Music

Ninth Parallel

Re: Playing Instruments Vs Producing Music

Vera

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Lydian

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Arktopolis

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Lydian

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Mussar

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Marrow Machines

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mrotsdnaS - eduraD

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Marrow Machines

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Final Kindgom

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FarleyCZ

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Marrow Machines

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Pzychosis

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toughenough6

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