Author Topic: Art Inspires art  (Read 15578 times)

Soundness

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Art Inspires art
« on: March 20, 2016, 02:41:16 am »
I always felt kinda weird and "fake" for making my songs inspired in anothers, for example deadmau5, madeon, FLUME, Gesaffelstein, Feed Me, etc
and then madeon uploaded a list that "inspired him to make Adventure (his debut album)" and I started to think, and wonder..

Is there any musician out there who wasn't inspired by a musician?
A song that wasn't inspired by another song, or a paint, or an image?

I mean, I sincerely want to read your opinnions and if Mat replies this, would be awesome, but I always had this sorta thinking that my favorite artist were just great, and had an idea in mind wich they made into a song, but what If EVERY TRACK EVER it's made thinking of another one?

I don't know if I made myself clear but hope I did
I wanna read how you feel about this creative/inspired topic and maybe helping me with my existencial crisis lol


FarleyCZ

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Re: Art Inspires art
« Reply #1 on: March 20, 2016, 11:54:03 am »
Oooh, I had this crysis too. ;D ...I'm not sure who's quote it is, but some big musician once said that there's only four original songs in whole music history and all the others are inspired. Obviously this is exaggeration of him, but in a sense he's right.

Everyone had their influences. You need to have them to know what music is at all. Otherwise you could call any noise a "music". Even those most ground breaking artists have them. I heard Skrillexe's Scary Monsters were massively influenced by Noisia. I'm sure guys from Noisia have their inspiration too. And so on... When people say "music evolves", this is what they mean by that. This image of producer sitting in the dark, when out of a sudden big yellow shining lightbulb appears above his head and he spits out next world-famous music genere, that's just plain wrong. It's a sweet image, because we'd all love to be that guy at certain point, but it doesn't work that way at all.

...and it's not just about music. Steve Jobs once said (can't find the video, damn...) that the best innovators always feel a bit shameful when someone praises their work, as they always know they just put different pieces together. It's called "lone inventor" myth. Even people like Einstein, Newton or Edison didn't come up with their work alone. They had coworkers and inspirations too. And that's what I think is important here.

I believe it's vital to listen to at least a bunch of different music styles. Trying to combine your influences makes your style. I don't think there's same in that.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2016, 11:59:48 am by FarleyCZ »
"Earth is round right? Look at it from right angle and you'll be always on top of the world."
...but don't overdo it, because that's called being a d***k.

Mussar

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Re: Art Inspires art
« Reply #2 on: March 20, 2016, 02:33:03 pm »
Read "Steal Like an Artist" by Austin Kleon, then go watch "Everything is a Remix."

The idea of creating "original art" when your understanding of art is based entirely upon the art that you have been subjected to throughout your life - unless you've been living in a cave and just learning through trial and error - is a fatalistic and self-defeating one.

For example, I've been working on a Moombahcore remix lately, and when I went to go find the Moombahcore tracks I have for inspiration, I realized that my drop shared similar qualities to SeamlessR's "Deathblow" feat. Celldweller. I haven't listened to that song in probably like a year (not for any particular reason of course), but that song was a major influence on me because of how it blended a lot of styles that I'm a fan of and that obviously influenced me in a subconscious way.

Now is my song a rip-off, or identical? Not in any way, shape, or form. Are the drops going to have the same feel? Probably not, even with a slightly similar rhythm and almost identical tempo. So it's still my song, and my creation.

bryan

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Re: Art Inspires art
« Reply #3 on: March 20, 2016, 03:33:56 pm »
Oooh, I had this crysis too. ;D ...I'm not sure who's quote it is, but some big musician once said that there's only four original songs in whole music history and all the others are inspired. Obviously this is exaggeration of him, but in a sense he's right.

Everyone had their influences. You need to have them to know what music is at all. Otherwise you could call any noise a "music". Even those most ground breaking artists have them. I heard Skrillexe's Scary Monsters were massively influenced by Noisia. I'm sure guys from Noisia have their inspiration too. And so on... When people say "music evolves", this is what they mean by that. This image of producer sitting in the dark, when out of a sudden big yellow shining lightbulb appears above his head and he spits out next world-famous music genere, that's just plain wrong. It's a sweet image, because we'd all love to be that guy at certain point, but it doesn't work that way at all.

...and it's not just about music. Steve Jobs once said (can't find the video, damn...) that the best innovators always feel a bit shameful when someone praises their work, as they always know they just put different pieces together. It's called "lone inventor" myth. Even people like Einstein, Newton or Edison didn't come up with their work alone. They had coworkers and inspirations too. And that's what I think is important here.

I believe it's vital to listen to at least a bunch of different music styles. Trying to combine your influences makes your style. I don't think there's same in that.

Spot on FarleyCZ.  I remember jobs said something about "I didn't do anything special. I just took all the pieces that existed and put them together." 

This is a curious issue to me.  As Mussar says, the lone inventor myth is fatalistic.  So then, why do "creative types" have such a fatalistic POV?  What is it that makes us so hard on ourselves?

FarleyCZ

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Re: Art Inspires art
« Reply #4 on: March 20, 2016, 04:03:18 pm »
So then, why do "creative types" have such a fatalistic POV?  What is it that makes us so hard on ourselves?
Yeah, this is the million dollar question. I saw freaking (real) Hans Zimmer posting somewhere that he sometimes has trouble to even indentify himself as a real musician. I mean ... excuse me? :D
I guess if we had a psychologist here he might spread some light over this. Fear of misunderstanding? Desire to be accepted may be? Who knows.
"Earth is round right? Look at it from right angle and you'll be always on top of the world."
...but don't overdo it, because that's called being a d***k.

Arktopolis

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Re: Art Inspires art
« Reply #5 on: March 20, 2016, 04:04:36 pm »
The idea of creating "original art" when your understanding of art is based entirely upon the art that you have been subjected to throughout your life - unless you've been living in a cave and just learning through trial and error - is a fatalistic and self-defeating one.

Exactly this. It's actually very liberating to realize. You can shamelessly copy stuff from others, and you don't have to feel bad about it, as long as you know that it's just a part of your creative process, not a way to pretend to be someone you're not. This is how I interpret the phrase "immature poets imitate; mature poets steal".

That being said, avoid plagiarism. :D

Arktopolis

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Re: Art Inspires art
« Reply #6 on: March 20, 2016, 04:06:00 pm »
So then, why do "creative types" have such a fatalistic POV?  What is it that makes us so hard on ourselves?
Yeah, this is the million dollar question. I saw freaking (real) Hans Zimmer posting somewhere that he sometimes has trouble to even indentify himself as a real musician. I mean ... excuse me? :D
I guess if we had a psychologist here he might spread some light over this. Fear of misunderstanding? Desire to be accepted may be? Who knows.

At best an armchair psychologist, but I would attribute such comments to the impostor syndrome: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impostor_syndrome

FarleyCZ

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Re: Art Inspires art
« Reply #7 on: March 20, 2016, 04:15:48 pm »
At best an armchair psychologist, but I would attribute such comments to the impostor syndrome: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impostor_syndrome
Wow. Didn't know there's a name for that. Strangely close (read: spot on) to how I tend to feel right before falling into severe depression. :D
"Earth is round right? Look at it from right angle and you'll be always on top of the world."
...but don't overdo it, because that's called being a d***k.

Mussar

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Re: Art Inspires art
« Reply #8 on: March 20, 2016, 08:57:19 pm »
Yeah, this is the million dollar question. I saw freaking (real) Hans Zimmer posting somewhere that he sometimes has trouble to even indentify himself as a real musician. I mean ... excuse me? :D

To be fair, he's not a musician in the sense that he writes songs. If you look into his composition process, he is actually much more of a producer - and not specifically in the sense that we are, but that plays a role. There's a story of how the score for Superman was composed where Zimmer walks over to a piano, plays two notes in a particular rhythm, then looks to his team of orchestrators and says "go write a score." He's the creative vision and oversees the production process, but he's a computer programmer with little to no knowledge of music theory (which explains his focus on the frequency response of sounds).

Which isn't to say he's not a musician, but it is to say how dangerous it can be to get trapped in those kinds of mindsets. Bernard Hermann died a regretful man despite composing the scores to some of the best films ever made, including Citizen Kane and Psycho, because he thought of himself as lesser than a traditional composer and conductor.

The moral of these stories? Fuck labels, fuck expectations, and find joy in being able to make a living by doing something you love.

vinceasot

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Re: Art Inspires art
« Reply #9 on: March 21, 2016, 11:32:08 am »
its good to be inspired by someone else's work, inspiration = music making, everyone looks at everyone else's work, its totally fine and normal

but just dont copy and rip off the sounds

you can 'steal' and emulate as long as you have your own spin on it, you can get away with it, but people will know

its hard to be unique though

but you gotta develop your own unique signature sound to really stand out i think, so you do have to 'steal' in a way but make it your own sound



« Last Edit: March 21, 2016, 11:36:06 am by vinceasot »

Soundness

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Re: Art Inspires art
« Reply #10 on: March 21, 2016, 06:24:44 pm »
So then, why do "creative types" have such a fatalistic POV?  What is it that makes us so hard on ourselves?
Yeah, this is the million dollar question. I saw freaking (real) Hans Zimmer posting somewhere that he sometimes has trouble to even indentify himself as a real musician. I mean ... excuse me? :D
I guess if we had a psychologist here he might spread some light over this. Fear of misunderstanding? Desire to be accepted may be? Who knows.

Hans Zimmer has trouble on talking about himself a musician? WHAT?

Soundness

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Re: Art Inspires art
« Reply #11 on: March 21, 2016, 06:26:53 pm »
Yeah, this is the million dollar question. I saw freaking (real) Hans Zimmer posting somewhere that he sometimes has trouble to even indentify himself as a real musician. I mean ... excuse me? :D

To be fair, he's not a musician in the sense that he writes songs. If you look into his composition process, he is actually much more of a producer - and not specifically in the sense that we are, but that plays a role. There's a story of how the score for Superman was composed where Zimmer walks over to a piano, plays two notes in a particular rhythm, then looks to his team of orchestrators and says "go write a score." He's the creative vision and oversees the production process, but he's a computer programmer with little to no knowledge of music theory (which explains his focus on the frequency response of sounds).



Hans Zimmer has low music theory knowledge? Man wtf he makes awesome music I thought he knew everything about music theory

Mussar

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Re: Art Inspires art
« Reply #12 on: March 21, 2016, 06:54:35 pm »
That's the skill of being a good Producer - i.e. someone who produces the creative vision of the artwork. It's partly why I've grown less angry over the idea of ghost producers - no one makes it to the top alone, and some of the best songs have come out of an entirely collaborative process. We don't get mad at Bruce Springsteen because he didn't write every part of Thunder Road. Diplo regularly produces songs in an environment where he surrounds himself with a ton of talented musicians so he doesn't have to rely on his brain and his brain alone.

Hanz Zimmer is just the same sort of thing, but for film. He knows what sounds good, he knows how to get emotion out the textures of sounds so he doesn't need as much melodic content, and he knows how to build an amazing team of orchestrators and music editors and musicians. Just look at the line up of drummers he got for Superman.

You don't need to be the best musician to create the best music. You just need to know how to put it all together in you own unique way.

FarleyCZ

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Re: Art Inspires art
« Reply #13 on: March 21, 2016, 08:55:12 pm »
I have to agree with Mussar a bit. He does surround himself with a ton of talent. John Powell, Steve Jablonsky, Henry Jackman... all of these got where they are thanks to participating in Hans Zimmer scores. I'm not sold on the idea of him having no musical knowledge though. He admitted he has trouble writting notes, he really is more on the producer mindset, but that doesn't make him less of a musician imho. :)

EDIT: Ha! Found it! These are his exact words:
Quote
I never studied music, but I'm basically unemployable in any other field. I've never had a real job. And most days I question if I am a "Real Composer"...
If that ain't a perfect living and breathing example of that impostor syndrome and "lone inventor" myth, I don't know what is.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2016, 09:09:51 pm by FarleyCZ »
"Earth is round right? Look at it from right angle and you'll be always on top of the world."
...but don't overdo it, because that's called being a d***k.

vinceasot

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Re: Art Inspires art
« Reply #14 on: March 21, 2016, 10:47:22 pm »
Yeah, this is the million dollar question. I saw freaking (real) Hans Zimmer posting somewhere that he sometimes has trouble to even indentify himself as a real musician. I mean ... excuse me? :D

To be fair, he's not a musician in the sense that he writes songs. If you look into his composition process, he is actually much more of a producer - and not specifically in the sense that we are, but that plays a role. There's a story of how the score for Superman was composed where Zimmer walks over to a piano, plays two notes in a particular rhythm, then looks to his team of orchestrators and says "go write a score." He's the creative vision and oversees the production process, but he's a computer programmer with little to no knowledge of music theory (which explains his focus on the frequency response of sounds).



Hans Zimmer has low music theory knowledge? Man wtf he makes awesome music I thought he knew everything about music theory
'

i read somewhere hans zimmer is more of a businessman than a producer, he has an army working for him
hans works really hard though and knows whats good, kinda like tiesto i think