Author Topic: Mixing without monitors  (Read 26031 times)

Valer

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Mixing without monitors
« on: January 06, 2016, 10:33:16 am »
I travel around fair bit and therefore unfortunately only have a pair of headphones to mix on.

However, I've run into the issue that I can't properly hear the low end of the mix, and the bass or kick often comes out either too muddy or too loud, or too low when played at a club or live venue. I've also noticed in cars that sometimes the bass is at such a frequency that it resonates with the plastic in the car causing it to vibrate.

Just wondering the best way to get the mix to 'work' in the low-end. I've tried using reference tracks and comparing them in Ozone, but my mixes always sound more unrefined, and I've also tried pink noise mixing.


Cheers

Miles Dominic

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Re: Mixing without monitors
« Reply #1 on: January 06, 2016, 10:41:01 am »
Imo you cannot really get the best mix possible without using monitors. You can have the most expensive headphones ever, but imo you really need proper monitors to mix. It just gives a different feel, more detailed experience. Atleast, thats how i feel from own experience haha.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2016, 10:53:38 am by Miles Dominic »

Tiongcy

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Re: Mixing without monitors
« Reply #2 on: January 06, 2016, 10:52:24 am »
The resonating in cars is normal i think. Even other tracks that are well mixed still make the plastic in the car vibrate. You can still get a good mix by just using headphones. just make sure that they have a flat response so that they wont be boosting certain frequencies which will mess you up haha

TheAGNO3

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Re: Mixing without monitors
« Reply #3 on: January 06, 2016, 11:00:07 am »
I used to have that low end issue too with my tracks in a club, a car, etc. It seems to be the common train of thought that 20-25hz and below is where you should roll off your track, but I find that does very little, personally. Try cutting out all frequencies from 40-45hz and below. You will notice a difference in your sub bass signal, but if you learn to work within that boundary you'll almost never encounter overwhelming muddiness from your sub bass, and you can still get a great amount of low end, just much tighter. I feel like the 20hz and below rule applies more to rock and other genres, electronic music can do with a more drastic cut.

As with all my posts, that's just my opinion, try for yourself.


Miles Dominic

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Re: Mixing without monitors
« Reply #4 on: January 06, 2016, 11:09:15 am »
I used to have that low end issue too with my tracks in a club, a car, etc. It seems to be the common train of thought that 20-25hz and below is where you should roll off your track, but I find that does very little, personally. Try cutting out all frequencies from 40-45hz and below. You will notice a difference in your sub bass signal, but if you learn to work within that boundary you'll almost never encounter overwhelming muddiness from your sub bass, and you can still get a great amount of low end, just much tighter. I feel like the 20hz and below rule applies more to rock and other genres, electronic music can do with a more drastic cut.

As with all my posts, that's just my opinion, try for yourself.

You really need the 30 -50 hz if you're making club/festival music man. Without that infra-sub it will sound weak.
What type of sub bass do you use? And do you make sure the sub bass is the only instrument playing that low down in the frequency range?

TheAGNO3

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Re: Mixing without monitors
« Reply #5 on: January 06, 2016, 11:29:23 am »
I used to have that low end issue too with my tracks in a club, a car, etc. It seems to be the common train of thought that 20-25hz and below is where you should roll off your track, but I find that does very little, personally. Try cutting out all frequencies from 40-45hz and below. You will notice a difference in your sub bass signal, but if you learn to work within that boundary you'll almost never encounter overwhelming muddiness from your sub bass, and you can still get a great amount of low end, just much tighter. I feel like the 20hz and below rule applies more to rock and other genres, electronic music can do with a more drastic cut.

As with all my posts, that's just my opinion, try for yourself.

You really need the 30 -50 hz if you're making club/festival music man. Without that infra-sub it will sound weak.
What type of sub bass do you use? And do you make sure the sub bass is the only instrument playing that low down in the frequency range?

I know it can seem so, but not relying on an overpowering sub signal causes you to appropriate a less chaotic range more effectively. I've found using this method that you can get nearly the exact same sound (and a fairly powerful feel in the sub range) but just with a lot more tightness and restraint. To be fair, 45 is pretty drastic, and again it's all about context like you said, but I think there's alternatives that allow your track to be more contained but just as powerful. My mixes personally are quite busy, I don't make festival style stuff or really "dancey" type stuff, so my sub usually has some competing elements but I always try to sonically separate my elements enough that they don't conflict.

Pixel Blood

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Re: Mixing without monitors
« Reply #6 on: January 06, 2016, 11:49:46 am »
I travel around fair bit and therefore unfortunately only have a pair of headphones to mix on.

However, I've run into the issue that I can't properly hear the low end of the mix, and the bass or kick often comes out either too muddy or too loud, or too low when played at a club or live venue. I've also noticed in cars that sometimes the bass is at such a frequency that it resonates with the plastic in the car causing it to vibrate.

Just wondering the best way to get the mix to 'work' in the low-end. I've tried using reference tracks and comparing them in Ozone, but my mixes always sound more unrefined, and I've also tried pink noise mixing.


What I do is first make sure my kick and bass/sub are occupying their own frequency ranges so they don't clash hard or muddy each other out while also checking if any phase cancelation is going on. I like reworking my side chaining with the attack and releases making sure the kick is peaking through but like complimenting the sub. Most of the time its the bass/sub just being too loud before using something like multi-band compression, or a limiter/maximizer. I can really muddy up my low end and flatten all the transients of my kick using the Maximizer to hard. So I usually use 3 or 4 instances of Maximizer starting around like -1.5db on the threshold on the first instance then on the next 2 or 3 i'll lower the threshold till I'm barely tapping the peak so I'm making the overall mix louder without flattening out the transients.

polymetric

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Re: Mixing without monitors
« Reply #7 on: January 06, 2016, 07:29:01 pm »
I travel around fair bit and therefore unfortunately only have a pair of headphones to mix on.

However, I've run into the issue that I can't properly hear the low end of the mix, and the bass or kick often comes out either too muddy or too loud, or too low when played at a club or live venue. I've also noticed in cars that sometimes the bass is at such a frequency that it resonates with the plastic in the car causing it to vibrate.

Just wondering the best way to get the mix to 'work' in the low-end. I've tried using reference tracks and comparing them in Ozone, but my mixes always sound more unrefined, and I've also tried pink noise mixing.


Cheers

It depends on the headphones. If you have anything other than headphones that explicitly state they are for monitoring, then don't take them or the sound they produce seriously. I highly, highly recommend either Sennheiser HD 280 Pros, or ATHM50x's

producer_chick

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Re: Mixing without monitors
« Reply #8 on: January 07, 2016, 12:01:58 am »
i'm mixing with open studio monitor headphones and find that no problem at all. I used to listen to reference songs when I started out just to get a feel of it and to know what it's supposed to sound like. When I'm done I just send the track off to a mastering engineer who will check the low end with monitor speakers to make sure it's all fine.

auvic

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Re: Mixing without monitors
« Reply #9 on: January 07, 2016, 12:06:49 am »
Miles is right--the most ideal mixing environment is a treated room and multiple pairs of good monitors. Headphones don't give you enough stereo information either.

Also, people like to check their mixes in cars, and I think it's overrated and kind of pointless. If you hear something off in a car but not in a studio, the problem is probably the ears.

MifzanHerawan

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Re: Mixing without monitors
« Reply #10 on: January 08, 2016, 10:38:03 am »
Miles is right--the most ideal mixing environment is a treated room and multiple pairs of good monitors. Headphones don't give you enough stereo information either.

Also, people like to check their mixes in cars, and I think it's overrated and kind of pointless. If you hear something off in a car but not in a studio, the problem is probably the ears.

yeah that's right about the headphones. by multiple pairs, would you recommend having them on totally different brand and different sizes ? bcs in my head i imagine krk 5-6-8 sitting together

auvic

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Re: Mixing without monitors
« Reply #11 on: January 08, 2016, 04:41:44 pm »
KRK 5-6-8 sitting together is terrible, because the spectrum of these monitors relay extremely similar, although each are more 'beefed' up versions from the previous.

KRK's are okay--I have the 5's, but I don't necessarily use them for mixing. They boost the low end way too much, and the highs too (although you can turn that down with a knob at the back).

Yamahas are pretty flat sounding, although, to me, they don't necessarily sound like they have the most depth. It seems those monitors are a bit more tailored to sound flat, like the HS-8's.

There are these legendary, discontinued monitors that are known to be in every professional studio, which are the NS-10's. The NS-10's draw out the ugliest bits of your mix, and apparently, if it sounds good on those, it will sound amazing everywhere. But these especially need to be mix-matched with other monitors, and can't really be used standalone. Though, I personally think these monitors are a bit overrated.

And of course, lastly, monitors are pointless if your room is not carefully treated and your monitors not precisely placed. As for knowing trying to figure out which monitors to get, I would suggest looking up a studio near you and testing out your mixes and professional mixes on those monitors to see which equipment you need.

LivingTombstone

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Re: Mixing without monitors
« Reply #12 on: January 08, 2016, 05:58:26 pm »
Honestly you can mix on just about everything, and everyone else said here that it is most recommended to mix with monitors, which is true.

Reference mixing can help like you mentioned.

Marrow Machines

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Re: Mixing without monitors
« Reply #13 on: January 08, 2016, 06:47:10 pm »
You gotta use both perspectives, but mostly rely on the monitors.

I pop my headphones on just to get a different perspective and to look at some tiny details. i'd consider it to be a microscope.
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Re: Mixing without monitors
« Reply #14 on: January 08, 2016, 08:17:59 pm »
You gotta use both perspectives, but mostly rely on the monitors.

I pop my headphones on just to get a different perspective and to look at some tiny details. i'd consider it to be a microscope.
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