Author Topic: Circle Of Fifths  (Read 8735 times)

Zundara

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Circle Of Fifths
« on: February 13, 2016, 09:10:30 pm »
Okay so question
1.) Do you use the circle of fifths trick where you choose your key you want to be in, be it Minor or Major build chords off of that then use the trick where you got to your . fourth, fifth and build off of those? As for minors, refer from time to time to the circle (whatever key you're in) and look at the minors?

Question 2. Say I'm in the key of AM and my last chords root was E, can I go down to BM or Cb? Then also can go from AM to Em to G#/Ab (member my root key for the song is AM) is it unwise to stray to far from the Main Root key? I'll try to explain more if I'm confusing you guys. Thanks for the advice in advance.

Lydian

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Re: Circle Of Fifths
« Reply #1 on: February 13, 2016, 10:04:04 pm »
1.) I don't really understand what you mean by circle of fifths trick. The only thing I use the circle of fifths for is to help gain a visual representation of key signatures and their number of sharps/flats. There might be some more hidden relationships that I'm not aware like the ones you described in your post but right now it's not ringing any bells. The way I choose the key I want to be in is by the vocalist because the key needs to fit their range. If there are no vocals then I literally just pick any key I want if I'm writing strictly electronic music.

2.) When you say go down to BM or Cb are you referring to key signatures or chords? The chord Bm doesn't exist in the key of A minor. Neither does any type of Cb chord unless you're borrowing chords from different keys or modulating to a new one. No it's not unwise to stray far from the root key if that's the sound you're going for but at an extreme you're going to end up with atonal music. (Music without any recognizable key).

I'm not sure what you're thinking but do realize that in order to stay in key the chords in root position will always follow this pattern.

Major, Minor, Minor, Major, Major, Minor, Diminished. - Major Keys
Minor, Diminished, Major, Minor, Minor, Major, Major. - Natural Minor Keys

So if you were in the key of AM the only chords you can choose from while staying within the key would be

(A) Minor, (B) Diminished, (C) Major, (D) Minor, (E) Minor, (F) Major, (G) Major.


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Zundara

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Re: Circle Of Fifths
« Reply #2 on: February 13, 2016, 10:31:51 pm »
Okay, I realize that there are a lot of wrong things with the question I posted so, to better describe what I'm talking about, this video explains it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=351&v=av6PwZ78zKY

Marrow Machines

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Re: Circle Of Fifths
« Reply #3 on: February 13, 2016, 10:36:43 pm »
Music is based off the Major key.

Your Major scales eventually run into your minor scales as you progress up or down the keyboard. This is true for any instrument (absolute statement check me if i am wrong please).

I personally found the circle of fifths confusing as hell. All you really need to know is what i said above and how to play the scales. That's a REALLY basic understanding.

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Lydian

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Re: Circle Of Fifths
« Reply #4 on: February 13, 2016, 11:15:02 pm »
Okay, I realize that there are a lot of wrong things with the question I posted so, to better describe what I'm talking about, this video explains it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=351&v=av6PwZ78zKY

In the video the guy says that F is the subdominant of C and G is the dominant of C. This is correct but using the circle of fifths to explain this topic of music theory really isn't the most efficient seeing as it complicates things.

Look at it like this... Each major or minor scale has 7 notes. The first note of the scale will always be the tonic. The fourth will always be the subdominant. The fifth will always be the dominant

In order it looks like this in the key of C major.

1-2-3-4-5-6-7 = C-D-E-F-G-A-B

C = Tonic
D = Super Tonic
E = Mediant
F = Sub Dominant
G = Dominant
A = Sub Mediant
B = Leading Tone

That is what you call the names of the scale degrees. Basically this stuff really isn't all that important aside from being aware of the definition of Tonic, Sub Dominant, Dominant, and Leading Tone. The leading tone is the note that wants to resolve back to the tonic because it's only one half step away. (B & C) If you played the dominant chord of C Major which would G Major then the notes would be G-B-D. Notice how that chord contains the B or the leading tone? For this reason, the dominant chord wants to resolve back to the tonic chord.

This stuff really isn't as relevant or important as you think it is until you get into part-writing or counterpoint which is pretty advanced music theory.

So how does this relate to the circle of fifths? Basically if we choose any letter from the sharp side of the circle (#) the subdominant (4) will be the note behind it and the dominant (5) will be the note in front of it. Lets just choose the letter G. Well if we look to the letter in front of it we get D which is the dominant of G major. The letter behind it is C which is the subdominant.

Another relationship is that the closer the keys are on the circle of fifth the easier it is to modulate into them or mix into them during your DJ sets. The reason why is because the notes between a subdominant key and a dominant key are HIGHLY related and almost the same.

Notice The notes in G Major, C Major, and D Major.

C Major = C D E F G A B
G Major = G A B C D E F#
D Major = D E F# G A B C#

See how if we were playing in the key of G major it would be easy to borrow chords from the other keys? Theres only a 1 note difference between the keys Gmaj and Cmaj and also the keys Gmaj & Dmaj.

Music is based off the Major key.

Your Major scales eventually run into your minor scales as you progress up or down the keyboard. This is true for any instrument (absolute statement check me if i am wrong please).

I personally found the circle of fifths confusing as hell. All you really need to know is what i said above and how to play the scales. That's a REALLY basic understanding.



You're correct that the notes of the relative major and minor scales overlap. Not all music is based off of the major key though. There are songs which are clearly based off of a minor key and in that case the scale degrees change.

A natural minor key doesn't contain a leading tone. Look at this in the key of A minor.

A B C D E F G = 1 2 3 4 5 6 7

Notice how the notes G and A are 2 halfsteps apart? A leading tone needs to be 1 halfstep apart. That's why we have the harmonic minor scale which contains a #7.

A Harmonic Minor = A B C D E F G#

Notice how the G# and A are now one halfstep apart? Now we got ourselves a nice fat n juicy leading tone!
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Marrow Machines

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Re: Circle Of Fifths
« Reply #5 on: February 13, 2016, 11:20:44 pm »
Music is based off the Major key.

Your Major scales eventually run into your minor scales as you progress up or down the keyboard. This is true for any instrument (absolute statement check me if i am wrong please).

I personally found the circle of fifths confusing as hell. All you really need to know is what i said above and how to play the scales. That's a REALLY basic understanding.



You're correct that the notes of the relative major and minor scales overlap. Not all music is based off of the major key though. There are songs which are clearly based off of a minor key and in that case the scale degrees change.



Right, I was just poking at a very basic understanding.

You gotta make it make sense a little, before you leap into the abyss.

It's also a mindset that I anchor when dealing with Majors and natural minors.
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