Author Topic: Mixing at incredibly low levels (Read 14138 times)

charzrd · « **on:** February 06, 2016, 11:47:39 pm »

I was toying with mixing at very low levels and i realized that i could possibly use this to get a cleaner mix. After creating a song that peaked at -8dbs i would leave a invisible limiter on my master then, i put ozone 6 on and another limiter to raise it back to -4 or even 0dbs . Is this the type of technique of mixing lets say: Mat Zo, Deadmau5, Madeon, Tchami and other producers use in order to get such amazing mixes? Besides the plugins and my master chain, do they mix at incredibly low levels in order to get an amazing output sound?

Does anyone else mix at unusually low levels to create good mixes?

greek_steve · « **Reply #1 on:** February 07, 2016, 12:49:23 am »

Yes. All the time. Keeps the neighbors happy. Keeps your ears happy. And the sound isn't bouncing off the walls as much.

RylanT · « **Reply #2 on:** February 07, 2016, 02:50:22 am »

I've been in some very talented producer's studios, some with releases on Anjunabeats/other top labels. And the first thing I notice, is how quiet they all produce at.

Marrow Machines · « **Reply #3 on:** February 07, 2016, 02:52:39 am »

I just set my interface's volume knob at a volume that's slightly above activating both speakers.

If i really want to see how it sounds at even lower volume, i pop in dim mode on my interface's software (the thing that control my ASIO settings or w/e) and i just crank the volume to where it's loud to hear, but at a much lower volume than if i were to have dim mode off.

another practice is pick the most quietest time of day, and do some mixing then. Couple the quiet with the decreased volume, and it'll be a different perception entirely.

I also do this technique to ensure that i still achieve my peaks at 0db, but i can save my ears and make decisions the longer i get into it.

I've also started adopting a realization for taking breaks. I just can't do the same rigor that i could do when i first started. besides, it gets not fun at that point.

When I was doing some recordings with Gordon Raphael, he said that the mix should sound good at the quietest of levels. The quietest you can get. Might be an exaggeration, but i applied what he said, and it helped me understand how much of an impact it makes at louder levels.

alex 1 · « **Reply #4 on:** February 07, 2016, 06:58:06 am »

i do most of my mixing at low level. its just easier to hear the differnces between the sounds.

as for "incredibly" low levels, yeah i do check my mixes like that, but i dont mix.
my technique is to have a volume plugin at the end of my mastering chain, set to -20db, or whatever sounds best for that track, then i just enable it at various stages, to hear what is sticking out too much.

some people even do weird things like playing white noise over the track, to hear what is too loud, but i aint tried that. dont like that idea at all.

Seneta · « **Reply #5 on:** February 07, 2016, 11:03:19 am »

Quote from: Marrow Machines on February 07, 2016, 02:52:39 am

I just set my interface's volume knob at a volume that's slightly above activating both speakers.

If i really want to see how it sounds at even lower volume, i pop in dim mode on my interface's software (the thing that control my ASIO settings or w/e) and i just crank the volume to where it's loud to hear, but at a much lower volume than if i were to have dim mode off.

another practice is pick the most quietest time of day, and do some mixing then. Couple the quiet with the decreased volume, and it'll be a different perception entirely.

I also do this technique to ensure that i still achieve my peaks at 0db, but i can save my ears and make decisions the longer i get into it.

I've also started adopting a realization for taking breaks. I just can't do the same rigor that i could do when i first started. besides, it gets not fun at that point.

When I was doing some recordings with Gordon Raphael, he said that the mix should sound good at the quietest of levels. The quietest you can get. Might be an exaggeration, but i applied what he said, and it helped me understand how much of an impact it makes at louder levels.

How low we talking?

Marrow Machines · « **Reply #6 on:** February 07, 2016, 02:47:58 pm »

Quote from: Seneta on February 07, 2016, 11:03:19 am

Quote from: Marrow Machines on February 07, 2016, 02:52:39 am
I just set my interface's volume knob at a volume that's slightly above activating both speakers.

If i really want to see how it sounds at even lower volume, i pop in dim mode on my interface's software (the thing that control my ASIO settings or w/e) and i just crank the volume to where it's loud to hear, but at a much lower volume than if i were to have dim mode off.

another practice is pick the most quietest time of day, and do some mixing then. Couple the quiet with the decreased volume, and it'll be a different perception entirely.

I also do this technique to ensure that i still achieve my peaks at 0db, but i can save my ears and make decisions the longer i get into it.

I've also started adopting a realization for taking breaks. I just can't do the same rigor that i could do when i first started. besides, it gets not fun at that point.

When I was doing some recordings with Gordon Raphael, he said that the mix should sound good at the quietest of levels. The quietest you can get. Might be an exaggeration, but i applied what he said, and it helped me understand how much of an impact it makes at louder levels.

How low we talking?

I'll assume that you're wanting to know how long i've been producing for due to,

Quote

I just can't do the same rigor that i could do when i first started.

It's been 6 years since I've started.

My ears have changed quite a bit over that time

Quote from: alex 1 on February 07, 2016, 06:58:06 am

my technique is to have a volume plugin at the end of my mastering chain, set to -20db, or whatever sounds best for that track, then i just enable it at various stages, to hear what is sticking out too much.

See if you have a dim mode in your interface's software. Mine is the scarlett mix control. I suggest the dim mode, only because it will show you if you're peaking over 0 in your daw. It keeps every thing at the same volume as if you were to not have the dim mode activated, but it doesn't actually reduce the master channels from your daw or on my mix control software. So i get to have a nice visual aid as well, with out guessing and checking.

charzrd · « **Reply #7 on:** February 07, 2016, 03:12:15 pm »

Whenever someone says they use volume plugins to hike the sound down i feel as if that will do something to the overall mix. Is it safe to put utility (ableton) and hike it down to -20dbs on the master chain? What about simply putting the overall master volume down?

Also, whats the safest way to bring the volume back up?

alex 1 · « **Reply #8 on:** February 07, 2016, 03:39:37 pm »

as long as the vol plugin is after all your limiters etc, there is nothing it can possibly do to mess with the sound.
if you're working totally in the software realm, then volume reduction doesnt have any bad affect.
sometimes by the time i finished mixing a track, my kick is sitting at around -20db, because of all the adjustments i made, but this doesnt matter, as everything is digital, so i have no noise problems to worry about

Marrow Machines · « **Reply #9 on:** February 07, 2016, 04:20:18 pm »

Quote from: alex 1 on February 07, 2016, 03:39:37 pm

as long as the vol plugin is after all your limiters etc, there is nothing it can possibly do to mess with the sound.
if you're working totally in the software realm, then volume reduction doesnt have any bad affect.
sometimes by the time i finished mixing a track, my kick is sitting at around -20db, because of all the adjustments i made, but this doesnt matter, as everything is digital, so i have no noise problems to worry about

So you reduce the volume after the limiter because that's what will be picking up the peaks.

Cool approach.

alex 1 · « **Reply #10 on:** February 07, 2016, 08:13:57 pm »

Quote from: Marrow Machines on February 07, 2016, 04:20:18 pm

So you reduce the volume after the limiter because that's what will be picking up the peaks.

exactly. you're hearing it as it would sound exported.
when i was talking about leaving my kick at -20db, im talking at a track level. i dont worry about
making sure my kick is at -10db or whatever other sillyness, i just use a volume plugin on the master
channel to get everything up to a sensible level, before i compress and limit.
then another vol plug after, for low level monitoring.

one thing you need to watch though, some things like analog modelled dist and exciters behave
differently as sounds approach 0db, and thats the only reason i can think of, why you would think that
the kick needs to be as loud as possible before it even leaves its kick channel.
but i dont use that type of thing. imo the result doesnt justify the cpu, so i just leave the channel
volumes wherever they sound good.

Marrow Machines · « **Reply #11 on:** February 07, 2016, 08:54:25 pm »

Quote from: alex 1 on February 07, 2016, 08:13:57 pm

Quote from: Marrow Machines on February 07, 2016, 04:20:18 pm

So you reduce the volume after the limiter because that's what will be picking up the peaks.

exactly. you're hearing it as it would sound exported.
when i was talking about leaving my kick at -20db, im talking at a track level. i dont worry about
making sure my kick is at -10db or whatever other sillyness, i just use a volume plugin on the master
channel to get everything up to a sensible level, before i compress and limit.
then another vol plug after, for low level monitoring.

one thing you need to watch though, some things like analog modelled dist and exciters behave
differently as sounds approach 0db, and thats the only reason i can think of, why you would think that
the kick needs to be as loud as possible before it even leaves its kick channel.
but i dont use that type of thing. imo the result doesnt justify the cpu, so i just leave the channel
volumes wherever they sound good.

awesome, that works the same way with my dim mode approach. Your way is more versatile and can be applied with out the interface's software.

Marrow Machines · « **Reply #12 on:** February 10, 2016, 03:11:06 am »

Quote from: Aris Opus on February 10, 2016, 02:42:41 am

Quote from: charzrd on February 07, 2016, 03:12:15 pm
Whenever someone says they use volume plugins to hike the sound down i feel as if that will do something to the overall mix. Is it safe to put utility (ableton) and hike it down to -20dbs on the master chain? What about simply putting the overall master volume down?

Also, whats the safest way to bring the volume back up?

In the end of it all that probably won't make much a difference if your levels aren't right, but I think what "they" are getting at; is hike it down for each track individually. -12,13 - 20 db for your first track down and just match everything to that could be a good starting point. I know it's said all the time, and I don't 100% believe in it, or follow it - but try to avoid putting things on your master until you are at the last 80-95% leg of your track.

You can put things on your master if they aren't actually doing any thing.

But unless you have separate software for your interface, which i recommend researching individually, then you might not have access to the tools that would be beneficial to mix at these lower than low volumes.

All you're doing is just turning down the signal, so that you still retain the information of the track that's being played back normally, but you get to observe from an entirely different volume perspective.

i don't know how it works with a limiter (only check for clipping) and then pushing the volume down after the limiter (chain is limiter then volume plugin). But my dim mode on my scarlett's software makes it pretty easy to pop it in and change from stereo to mono quickly and with out any fuss on the master.

I'll also suggest routing things to a pre master so that it would offer the same level of volume control. Hell you can even send it to two pre masters, the one will capture all of the signal and the next one will have it set to where it's -20dbs (dim mode). That way you still retain the original signal but are listening at a lower volume. So you can mix and pump up your interface's volume to compensate, but you can see if you're clipping things to much in the new perspective.

alex 1 · « **Reply #13 on:** February 11, 2016, 01:36:28 pm »

@ aris opus
No, I really did mean turn down the master.
Dunno why you think it won't help if the tracks levels ain't balanced. That's precisely why I do it. Sometimes, at normal volumes, you can't quite pin down what's wrong, but then when you turn it down really low, you can hear a certain sound is overpowering the rest.

Little tip for FL users:
Put your mastering chain on channel 1 instead of the master channel, then everything that was routed to the master, route to channel 1.
Now, with channel 1 routed to the master, you can fill the master with analyzers, volume plugin, and low pass filters, for comparing your bass to reference tracks.
Doing this also means you can route your reference tracks to the master, without them going through your mastering chain, so you can compare easily in your analyzer chain.

Midge · « **Reply #14 on:** February 11, 2016, 09:51:43 pm »

obviously it is really great for ear fatigue. You can produce music for longer periods of time when listening at lower levels but I find turning the volume down incredibly quiet helps with balancing your upper mids and higher frequencies.

A lot of mixes I listen to I turn the volume way down and it becomes very apparent that the high end information such as hats, rides and FX are way to loud.
To check this - if you turn the volume down so low in headphones so the audio is only just audible then if you can basically only hear your snares / hats / and noise FX then its probably a good idea to turn those elements down a touch.

Author Topic: Mixing at incredibly low levels (Read 14138 times)

charzrd

Mixing at incredibly low levels

greek_steve

Re: Mixing at incredibly low levels

RylanT

Re: Mixing at incredibly low levels

Marrow Machines

Re: Mixing at incredibly low levels

alex 1

Re: Mixing at incredibly low levels

Seneta

Re: Mixing at incredibly low levels

Marrow Machines

Re: Mixing at incredibly low levels

charzrd

Re: Mixing at incredibly low levels

alex 1

Re: Mixing at incredibly low levels

Marrow Machines

Re: Mixing at incredibly low levels

alex 1

Re: Mixing at incredibly low levels

Marrow Machines

Re: Mixing at incredibly low levels

Marrow Machines

Re: Mixing at incredibly low levels

alex 1

Re: Mixing at incredibly low levels

Midge

Re: Mixing at incredibly low levels