Author Topic: Does politics have a place in music?  (Read 12828 times)

oxbloodoxblood

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Does politics have a place in music?
« on: January 24, 2016, 01:01:32 am »
Are you frequently motivated to write music that has an overt political message?

Do you enjoy "protest music" by other musicians?

When you hear your favorite artists voice their political opinions, are you glad you know more about their views? Do they influence your own opinions? Or do you just wish they would shut up about something they are not equipped to discuss?

In a 2011 New York Times interview with will.i.am, Deborah Solomon (who has since been fired) asked him the following:

Quote
A friend of mine says that nightlife represents the greatest waste of human energy in the history of mankind.
Your friend probably doesn’t go to clubs. Right now in the world, clubbing is needed. It’s a time when people want to rub shoulders against people they don’t know and share, even if the sharing is expressing your like over a beat.

Do you agree with Deborah or Will.i.am?

A lot of questions, I know, but I'm curious what everyone's opinions seem to be on this matter.

tropen

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Re: Does politics have a place in music?
« Reply #1 on: January 24, 2016, 01:54:24 am »
I think it's hard for most electronic musicians to convey a political message without any lyrics. Typically, I would say most listeners want to feel some type of emotion from electronic music, or have it make them dance uncontrollably. Even with lyrics, it'd be a tough task to make a song with a strong political message that a listener wouldn't immediately write off as corny. Or, that's how I'd analyze something like that myself.

I think protest music had it's heydey with rock & roll during the 50's-80's. A lot of hip-hip nowadays and during it's rise is politically charged. I haven't really heard much electronic music that's sounded like that. If it were to be done well, I'd for sure give it a listen.

In short, I think politics has a place in music, just less so electronic music.
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oxbloodoxblood

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Re: Does politics have a place in music?
« Reply #2 on: January 24, 2016, 03:27:20 am »
I think it's hard for most electronic musicians to convey a political message without any lyrics. Typically, I would say most listeners want to feel some type of emotion from electronic music, or have it make them dance uncontrollably. Even with lyrics, it'd be a tough task to make a song with a strong political message that a listener wouldn't immediately write off as corny. Or, that's how I'd analyze something like that myself.

Atari Teenage Riot did a pretty good job of creating dance music that was also political with their "digital hardcore" sound. But I'll admit that was some time ago-- their heyday was late 90s.

I wouldn't say it's difficult so much as today's producers aren't interested, which is not necessarily wrong.

Wontolla

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Re: Does politics have a place in music?
« Reply #3 on: January 24, 2016, 03:50:50 am »
If it makes good music, it makes good music. Done right, it gives musicians something inspiring to write about; done wrong, it just takes you out of the music.

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Re: Does politics have a place in music?
« Reply #4 on: January 24, 2016, 06:12:15 am »
Industrial music is probably the most political form of electronic music.
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vinceasot

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Re: Does politics have a place in music?
« Reply #5 on: January 24, 2016, 07:02:01 am »
why are you talking about wil.i.am lol,  the man is a disgrace to music, he ripped of mat zo and arty's track rebound, and called it his own track, he cant even DJ for shit and tried to DJ at a festival and it backfired lol



« Last Edit: January 24, 2016, 07:07:51 am by vinceasot »

Joseph

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Re: Does politics have a place in music?
« Reply #6 on: January 24, 2016, 09:05:46 am »
No idea, but music is a great way to deliver messages and emotions.
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FarleyCZ

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Re: Does politics have a place in music?
« Reply #7 on: January 24, 2016, 01:31:51 pm »
I actually hate it. I've heard bunch of protest songs over the years and I can honstly say that I hate how political emotions connected to the topic of the protest song overpower the actual music. It would be OK if the idea expressed in the lyrics was somehow ethernally true or inspiring in some way, but that doesn't happen very often with protest songs. It's usually a "melodyfied propaganda". ...so your actual liking of the song depends on how much you agree with the expressed opinion. Music itself gets out of the way. I hate that.

...so for example I like that "Dear Mr. President" song by Pink, but I feel like if this song was more right-wing oriented, I wouldn't like it that much. ...and that fact I ironically hate.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2016, 04:04:03 pm by FarleyCZ »
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oxbloodoxblood

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Re: Does politics have a place in music?
« Reply #8 on: January 24, 2016, 04:39:50 pm »
why are you talking about wil.i.am lol,  the man is a disgrace to music, he ripped of mat zo and arty's track rebound, and called it his own track, he cant even DJ for shit and tried to DJ at a festival and it backfired lol

Because the question posed to him is interesting. This journalist seems to be arguing that dancing is inherently apolitical, and thus, a waste of energy that could be spent on political involvement or self-betterment or whatever. Yet one could argue that house music, and much of dance music overall, stemmed from hyper specific and thus political contexts: Paradise Garage, The Warehouse and similar spaces were spaces meant for black, latino and LGBT people to express themselves safely and freely. It is difficult to remove the music's origins from the contexts of HIV/AIDS, ACT-UP, underground hormone dealing, etc.

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Re: Does politics have a place in music?
« Reply #9 on: January 24, 2016, 04:47:33 pm »
Have you guys seen the video for Kill The Noise - Kill it for the Kids? That definitely has a political message that a lot of people missed. Jake has always had a political message in a lot his music.

I tried to put political messages in my first album. 'Moderate Stimulation' is about our generation's inability to focus on things that aren't pure entertainment

OkayBuddy

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Re: Does politics have a place in music?
« Reply #10 on: January 25, 2016, 05:07:01 am »
Bad Religion had a huge influence on my political views as i was growing up.

Art is one of the best ways to understand the political views of a society. If the government is pissing you off sometimes the best way to fight back is to create some art expressing how you feel. It gives other people a chance to hear it and they might be thinking the same thing as you but may not have a way to express it....also it seemed to work out well for the beetles.


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Re: Does politics have a place in music?
« Reply #11 on: January 26, 2016, 03:39:34 am »
To answer the thread title question, politics has a place in music. In just about all cases, that place is "making it worse".

More often than not, musicians don't know crap about how the real world works. Especially not musicians in popular genres, who tend to be young, unmarried, and without kids. The best most musicians can do is come up with a new poetic way to say something that is a long-established truth figured out by people who are smarter than them (and since it's a long-established truth it's not very interesting).

Musicians tend to be strong on expression and weak on things like depth of thought and knowledge of the world. If you're going to express political opinions, you don't even need those last two things, strictly speaking, but you should at least question your own biases, and most musicians never have a reason to do that in the political echo chamber of the entertainment industry.

Personally I hate all "protest" music, and most political music (if I can tell it's political). Anything with a left-wing political message is not worth the acetate or hard-drive space it's recorded on, and most right-wing music is too low quality to actually listen to (chalk that up to the law of large numbers I guess).

Unfortunately, I am motivated to write political music (I know! I can't help it!) but it's never "overt". In a lot of cases, you wouldn't even know it was political unless you understood the very specific references I place in it in my own coded imagery. I try to stick to the rule of only writing a political song if there's nothing better or more interesting I can think of to write about, and then while I'm writing it I try to find something universal and non-political about it as a frame to sort of "hang" it on..
« Last Edit: January 26, 2016, 04:08:55 am by Nadav »

Nadav

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Re: Does politics have a place in music?
« Reply #12 on: January 26, 2016, 04:07:25 am »
Bad Religion had a huge influence on my political views as i was growing up.

Art is one of the best ways to understand the political views of a society. If the government is pissing you off sometimes the best way to fight back is to create some art expressing how you feel. It gives other people a chance to hear it and they might be thinking the same thing as you but may not have a way to express it....also it seemed to work out well for the beetles.

So what happens when the rebels become the establishment?

A while back I noticed that the political messages in rock music seemed really weak, and then I realized it's because they're all establishment messages now! In the 1960s it was edgy to talk about how white people deserved their comeuppance, but by the time Iron Maiden released "Run to the Hills" it was practically what every movie, TV show, and mainstream politician was saying too. Eddie Vedder's got all these songs about equality and women's rights...as if most people on TV or in the government would say a word otherwise without being fired and publicly shamed. How brave of you, Eddie. (And I like Pearl Jam!)

Bad Religion is left-wing, individualist, pro-abortion, pro-gay marriage, and atheist. If instead of being rock musicians they had been TV news anchors, politicians, business leaders, scholars, or presidents of state colleges, they could STILL feel perfectly comfortable stating their honest views in public and never fear for their long-term reputations or their safety. Not so if they were right-wing.

Just saying something that SOUNDS right-wing can get you fired, slandered, uninvited from speaking engagements, or blackballed altogether. It gets complaints lodged against your company, it can get you sued, it can land you in mandatory "sensitivity training", or in some countries it can land you in prison.

I think that's one of the reasons why if music is going to be political, I prefer right-wing messages. It's at least got some balls to it.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2016, 04:18:43 am by Nadav »

FarleyCZ

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Re: Does politics have a place in music?
« Reply #13 on: January 26, 2016, 07:37:57 am »
I think that's one of the reasons why if music is going to be political, I prefer right-wing messages. It's at least got some balls to it.
See and that's what I'm talking about. Then you can have perfectly nice song with left-wing message, that you'll tend to ignore just for the message. Music gets out of the way.
"Earth is round right? Look at it from right angle and you'll be always on top of the world."
...but don't overdo it, because that's called being a d***k.