Author Topic: Anyone feeling like shit (musically)?  (Read 35706 times)

Nadav

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Re: Anyone feeling like shit (musically)?
« Reply #30 on: January 28, 2016, 05:28:27 am »
There is an element of genetic memory involved sometimes, but this is just accumulated practice that transcends generations. It had to start somewhere. If the 10,000 hours doesn't make you the next Mozart, then maybe your offspring or your offspring's offspring will reap the benefits as long as the tradition of practice is maintained.

Here's some smart people on a science forum discussing genetic memory. I started the page at a particularly illuminating comment: http://www.sciencechatforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=11004&start=0#p113347 The guy above him mentions (by implication) that you have to be careful about how you use terms like "memory", which is an excellent point when talking about science in general.

Here's a doctor discussing genetic memory, and he mentions autistic savants too: https://www.wisconsinmedicalsociety.org/professional/savant-syndrome/resources/articles/ancestral-or-genetic-memory-factory-installed-software/

Basically, right now the science covers the effect of trauma in rodents passed on as fear or even mental disorder in their offspring, but it doesn't seem to cover skills that humans have practiced and passed on to their human kids as talent. Experiments to show such an effect would require doing very unfair things to lots of pairs of twins over a long period of time, and so they are unlikely to happen.

I would caution anyone to be very skeptical when reading about genetic memory in newspapers or magazines, since science journalism almost always does injustice to the science. Scientific findings are incremental by necessity (experiments test 1 variable at a time), but scientists have to make their findings seem big and important in order to make it worthwhile (i.e. get interest and funding for more experiments).

Journalists, who are basically monkeys who've learned how to walk upright and mimic human speech, don't understand how to parse the nuance out of the scientists' press releases, and so they not only take certain things at face value but project their own meanings and biases onto it--and that's before they even start thinking about how to write a catchy headline.

If a scientist writes "We found a 0.4% positive correlation between eating Slim Jims and arterial plaque in young adult males, and here are the areas of our experiment that could have been better, and here are other scientists who disagree with these findings, and here are suggestions for further research," the journalist writes "ACCORDING TO ALL OF SCIENCE, EATING PACKAGED FOODS MAKES ALL MEN DROP DEAD FROM HEART ATTACKS WHEN THEY GO TO COLLEGE!"
« Last Edit: January 28, 2016, 05:39:13 am by Nadav »

ion

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Re: Anyone feeling like shit (musically)?
« Reply #31 on: January 28, 2016, 05:49:19 am »
I don't get the whole "I need to feel extreme emotions to write music" thing.
I do, but I totally agree with you on the "put in work" part.  I use these periods to make different kinds of music.  I put more emotions into tracks I make when have "the feels", and make lighter stuff when I don´t have them.

If you manage to get tired of music altogether, like it seems like that is where the OP is, then please don´t stop searching!  I got so sick of music that I didn´t listen to anything for almost 3 years. I picked news stations when I was driving.  And when I really started exploring again I got really pissed at myself for all the stuff I missed.

TL:DR use different emotions for different types of music. Never say die.
Gone

IKIS

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Re: Anyone feeling like shit (musically)?
« Reply #32 on: January 28, 2016, 12:40:33 pm »
Contrary to popular belief, there is no such thing as innate talent. There are people who have had more exposure to an artform or skill, or people who have had more practice. But there are no people who are born gifted with no previous stimuli. Everyone has the potential to be a great composer as long as they put their 10,000 hours in. The people who pick up an instrument or DAW for the first time, and immediately have abilities beyond others who have spent more time practicing, usually already have a skill where there is overlap. Or, in some cases of autism the brain is wired in such a way where there is a natural ability, but this is extremely rare. For most people it just takes years of practice.

I personally was extremely lucky to be exposed to music even before I was born. My mother consciously sang and played violin to me while I was still in the womb because she wanted me to have musical abilities. Then when I was born she consciously taught me methods such as the Kodaly approach to further my musical abilities. Even still, if you listen to my early tracks they're absolute garbage. It still took years of practice to create anything worth listening to.

Glad someone said it out loud. There is no "natural talent" imo. It always grinds my gears when people say "hes so talented" etc. What I do think that some people are better at learning, and have a better mindset than other people. Some people might have a higher IQ than others but it doesn't mean they're talented. It all comes down to practice, and where you focus your mental energy.

The key is practice. Some people are just better at learning and it is often labeled as "talent". Maybe the real talent is the ability to learn well.

ZAU

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Re: Anyone feeling like shit (musically)?
« Reply #33 on: February 26, 2016, 03:36:14 pm »
But when I pick up my guitar, my hands know how to play the blues like a blind homeless guy, or how to rage against society like a stoned teenage punk.
I would love to hear some of that blues guitar playing Nadav, do you have anything online I could check out?

Nadav

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Re: Anyone feeling like shit (musically)?
« Reply #34 on: February 26, 2016, 05:50:05 pm »
I would love to hear some of that blues guitar playing Nadav, do you have anything online I could check out?

So far I've only recorded my original songs, which are all basically in the "hard rock" genre, and I avoid using blues influences in those as best I can. Too cliche. I don't always succeed: one of my songs has an almost bluesy guitar solo in the middle. If you listen to my songs on SC you'll probably figure out which one it is.

Just to be clear, I'm not saying my guitar playing is exceptionally good (it definitely isn't), only that playing with emotion and character is part of how I've always practiced guitar, and it's how any musician ought to practice whatever they play--including if they "play" a DAW + VSTs. You shouldn't expect emotion and character to come through otherwise.

But if emotion and character are part of how you practice, it's hard for them not to come through even when you're not actually feeling that way. That's the main point I was making. To reference the OP, if you want to make music that sounds like something a person who's "feeling like shit" would make, practice it! Don't wait around until you actually feel like shit.

Nadav

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Re: Anyone feeling like shit (musically)?
« Reply #35 on: February 26, 2016, 06:00:03 pm »
But if emotion and character are part of how you practice, it's hard for them not to come through even when you're not actually feeling that way.
PS. That's also my explanation for why I'm still able to make aggressive rock music--i.e. the music of my adolescence--even though I'm a husband and father with a very stable life and career.

ZAU

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Re: Anyone feeling like shit (musically)?
« Reply #36 on: February 27, 2016, 12:47:11 am »
Just to be clear, I'm not saying my guitar playing is exceptionally good (it definitely isn't

Dammit. I was really looking forward to hearing you play the blues like a blind homeless man, only because you said that you could.

fxbip

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Re: Anyone feeling like shit (musically)?
« Reply #37 on: February 27, 2016, 07:12:50 pm »
I was obliged to be industrious. Whoever is equally industrious will succeed equally well. JS Bach


It is a mistake to think that the practice of my art has become easy to me. I assure you, dear friend, no one has given so much care to the study of composition as I. There is scarcely a famous master in music whose works I have not frequently and diligently studied. Mozart

Everyone is shit at the beginning.I remember when i first start out in music.Almost everything was shit.But not everything.So i said to myself,there is actually some good things in what i do and focus on the good things and learning in what i was doing.You got to believe you can make something good.And then you work and you learn what works and what doesnt works.You discard whats not beautiful and you keep what is beautiful.Its about aquiring taste and intuition.

And when time passes you have like a growing bank of themes,harmonies,beats,melodies,tricks that you learn along the way that you can reuse all the time.
 
At first like 1 track out of 8 or 10 might be good,then 1 out of 6 then out of 4-3 then if you get really good it might become 1 out of 2 and if you get to the highest levels of creativity almost everything you make is good.But we re talking like master level here,like Beethoven level.

So its a process,its progressive.You get better and better and someday you realize you just made a track you never though you could make like 4 years ago.And that s quite satisfying.

Red X

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Re: Anyone feeling like shit (musically)?
« Reply #38 on: February 28, 2016, 09:59:54 pm »
When I'm not feeling the song I'm working on I don't stop I just start adding stuff it starts to become less about emotion and more about technical and it allows me to continue to learn I don't throw it away I finish it fast I'm not showing anybody anyways just practicing.. everybody is good when they're on fire with inspiration but not alot of people are good when they're on their C game and right now I'm very inconsistent my goal is to be consistent with the tools I have to create music...

bryan

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Re: Anyone feeling like shit (musically)?
« Reply #39 on: February 29, 2016, 06:42:59 pm »
It's just like a relationship.. sometimes you need some time and space away from your partner. But you always come back.

Wow, I've never heard it expressed this way...but I really like it.  I feel like it encapsulates the highs and the lows of a relationship.

Last night, I had a microcosm of what everyone is talking about.  After dinner, I said to myself, "I'm going to create SOMETHING tonight."  You see, I'm a procrastinator and will usually choose forums, organizing samples, testing new plugins, etc. over ACTUALLY MAKING MUSIC.  It's a frustrating trait within myself.  So last night, I said, "enough is enough" and tried to create something.

The first hour/hour and a half were AWFUL. Just mucking about some chord progressions and not getting ANYWHERE.  I'd think I was on the way to something good and then....nope.  It was terrible.

I decided to switch courses.  If I can't do chord progressions, why not start with a bassline?  I fired up u-he's hive, and started thumbing through the presets.  Next thing you know, with some arpeggiation, I had a decent groove.

Fast forward 3 more hours, and I made a LEGIT tune and backbone to a song last night.  I had FUN.  I was dancing and snapping to myself in my room.  It was glorious and I went to bed happy, content, satisfied...even overjoyed.  I had to force myself to go to bed (cuz I have a "real" job). 

I don't know that there's a moral or point to my story, other than to add my voice to the choir that, yes, it happens to me to.  And maybe that sometimes there IS hope at the end of the tunnel.

ZAU

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Re: Anyone feeling like shit (musically)?
« Reply #40 on: March 01, 2016, 11:14:04 pm »
Wow, I've never heard it expressed this way...but I really like it.  I feel like it encapsulates the highs and the lows of a relationship.

I don't know that there's a moral or point to my story, other than to add my voice to the choir that, yes, it happens to me to.  And maybe that sometimes there IS hope at the end of the tunnel.

First of all, of course there is! What you put in, get back. And the more you put in without expecting anything back, the greater the artiste you'll be.

This is the reason why I keep stressing that the best way to improve is to just make tracks. Especially for people just starting out. Just do it. Don't worry too much over techniques, you will get better with every track you make, guaranteed! The more tracks you make, the more you'll discover stuff about yourself. You develop your own personal workflow, which is the key to finishing more tracks quicker... And the cycle repeats, and then you get better and better.

Second, congrats on breaking through the barriers and finishing your track! It's a wonderful feeling, isn't it?  :) Plus, you discovered that starting the track with chord progressions maybe isn't the way to go for you, these types of things are so important in shaping your personal workflow. Keep at it!

Third, about the analogy thing, glad you like it  :) As a person who has been through 2 serious relationships and finally happily married now, I think I've earned the right to be talking about relationships like that! There will be extreme highs and extreme lows, of course. That happens even when you're not in a relationship. But if you love the person enough, obstacles won't matter and you work through those obstacles, you come back.

My husband (I'm a lady you see) is also a musician and we have it really good, thankfully. The secret to a long lasting relationship is this: you have to understand that at the end of the day, the two of you will always be two individuals.. You need your own separate friends, your own interests, your own space. Because when you die, you aren't buried in the same coffin (sorry for sounding really grim here!) Now how the two of you meet in the middle despite all of this... that's a relationship. Wow, giving relationship advice in a production forum, that's a first!  ;)

track7

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Re: Anyone feeling like shit (musically)?
« Reply #41 on: March 02, 2016, 12:08:28 am »
Listen to whole different genre than you'd normally like.. could be anything from 50s big bands to country, heavy metal etc or even pop, ambient, a soundtrack for a video game.. anything. Forget producing and get back to listening and enjoying.

bryan

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Re: Anyone feeling like shit (musically)?
« Reply #42 on: March 02, 2016, 12:53:08 am »
Wow, giving relationship advice in a production forum, that's a first!  ;)

ha! thanks for the encouraging words. I myself have some experience in the marriage arena as well (almost 5 years!).  Great advice for all relationships - whether music or humans :)

ZAU

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Re: Anyone feeling like shit (musically)?
« Reply #43 on: March 02, 2016, 12:57:47 am »
ha! thanks for the encouraging words. I myself have some experience in the marriage arena as well (almost 5 years!).  Great advice for all relationships - whether music or humans :)

No problem! Come April, it will be 4 years for us!

JayRox

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Re: Anyone feeling like shit (musically)?
« Reply #44 on: March 02, 2016, 11:08:55 pm »

It's a shitty form of writers block, how do you deal with it?

I've been here a few times (and it will probably happen again). So I totally get it. What really works for me is to stop working on my music and find relaxation. Because If I continue I will only get more frustrated, which makes me feel bad (again). And before I know it I get stuck in this cycle.
I know this sounds easy. Because than you might feel guilty about not working on your music etc. But personally, after some practice, I notice it much earlier know. And than I go and do something fun. Like feeding the ducks with my daughter, or going to my brother for some mindless PS4 gaming, etc. But thats really personal of course.
But when I'm relaxed I soon feel the urge again of making music again. 
J.

"music is what feelings sound like"