Author Topic: Anyone feeling like shit (musically)?  (Read 35706 times)

Bertie South

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Re: Anyone feeling like shit (musically)?
« Reply #15 on: January 25, 2016, 10:01:17 am »
I'm too centered and content right now.


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Nadav

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Re: Anyone feeling like shit (musically)?
« Reply #16 on: January 26, 2016, 04:28:46 am »
I don't get the whole "I need to feel extreme emotions to write music" thing. The emotional character of music lives in your hands, not your head. I can pick up my guitar on a pleasant breezy day when I've been in a great mood for weeks, and my fingers just know how to play the most tortured blues licks they could ever play. Because practice. The same goes for writing melodies or chord progressions or lyrics or transitions or song structures.

Maybe music that's created by staring at screens doesn't have this advantage? But then the solution is to do the musical "heavy lifting" away from the screen and just use the screen to enter it in and tweak it.

If the problems with [feeling extreme emotions] and then [going and sitting in front of a screen for hours at a time] aren't obvious to you, wait a couple years and they will be.

When there are those times when life causes you to feel extreme emotions, maybe you'll get musical ideas, and that's great, but it's a serious mistake to think that those emotions are required or useful in order to get musical ideas.

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Re: Anyone feeling like shit (musically)?
« Reply #17 on: January 26, 2016, 05:54:16 am »
I don't get the whole "I need to feel extreme emotions to write music" thing.

I do. Ever heard the quote "You can't sing the blues if you've never lived them"?

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Re: Anyone feeling like shit (musically)?
« Reply #18 on: January 26, 2016, 04:56:39 pm »
By the way, when I feel like shit, I can't write any music really. And when I feel great, I write the best music I can.

Nadav

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Re: Anyone feeling like shit (musically)?
« Reply #19 on: January 27, 2016, 12:28:16 am »
I don't get the whole "I need to feel extreme emotions to write music" thing.

I do. Ever heard the quote "You can't sing the blues if you've never lived them"?

Of course. Doesn't mean it's true.

If music for you is just another form of expression like writing in a journal or talking to your mom on the phone, then yeah, I guess you have to be living whatever you're playing.

But I think for most of us, music is something different. It's something where we can create things that aren't based on our literal narrative lives. There's no musical equivalent for "Dear Diary"; music is not just its own language, it's its own system of logic, causality, ontology, and so on.  It's way more abstracted from everyday experience than emotions are. That's what makes music interesting and seductive.

If there was a list of all the people alive, and the list was ordered by who had the most to complain about, I'd be at the bottom of that list. But when I pick up my guitar, my hands know how to play the blues like a blind homeless guy, or how to rage against society like a stoned teenage punk. Because I've been doing it since I WAS a stoned teenage punk, almost 20 years ago. Because Practice. Practice. We talkin' 'bout pratice. Not the game. Practice.

Seriously, this is music. You gotta friggin practice.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2016, 12:31:31 am by Nadav »

Nadav

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Re: Anyone feeling like shit (musically)?
« Reply #20 on: January 27, 2016, 12:40:08 am »
You know, this reminds me of something.

You hear about these rock stars who disappear for months and do a bunch of drugs and deprive themselves of sleep and record their albums in haunted houses and then they come out with a good album or two, thanks to those extreme experiences they went through. As a kid, I thought that was so cool and was definitely the way to go if you wanted to make badass rock music.

Well, now most of those guys are dead. The ones who aren't dead have figured out that that's a lousy way to work. Meanwhile, the musicians who last long enough to really develop their art into something powerful and amazing have been getting up in the morning (yes, I mean AM--when the sun comes up), maybe drinking a cup of coffee, then working for 8 hours, then going home and doing normal stuff. They also stay in shape and watch what they eat, and they don't alter their minds much more than having a couple beers on the weekend. In other words, they act like professionals, and like serious adults. For all you young artists out there, it's a good example to learn from.

Gabe D

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Re: Anyone feeling like shit (musically)?
« Reply #21 on: January 27, 2016, 12:58:44 am »
@ Nadav - I will kindly disagree with a few of your comments. Sure your hands can make music but to think that your brain is not involved in that process is odd.

Also remember that everyone works differently. Everyone grasps things a little differently.

[/quote]
Seriously, this is music. You gotta friggin practice.
[/quote]

To just say "you gotta friggin practice" is a weak statement. You can practice all you want. It doesn't always mean that you will have that great creativity. A writer can write, but does he/she always write gold? Nope. And just like them, we to get "writers" block.

As for the emotional character lives in your hands comments, all I can say is my hands feel no emotion. Emotion comes from inside for me. The way a chord strikes or vocalists hits a certain note, can affect us emotionally.

My point is, we are all not the same.
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Nadav

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Re: Anyone feeling like shit (musically)?
« Reply #22 on: January 27, 2016, 02:09:45 pm »
@ Nadav - I will kindly disagree with a few of your comments. Sure your hands can make music but to think that your brain is not involved in that process is odd.

Also remember that everyone works differently. Everyone grasps things a little differently.

Seriously, this is music. You gotta friggin practice.
[/quote]

To just say "you gotta friggin practice" is a weak statement. You can practice all you want. It doesn't always mean that you will have that great creativity. A writer can write, but does he/she always write gold? Nope. And just like them, we to get "writers" block.

As for the emotional character lives in your hands comments, all I can say is my hands feel no emotion. Emotion comes from inside for me. The way a chord strikes or vocalists hits a certain note, can affect us emotionally.

My point is, we are all not the same.
[/quote]

"We are not all the same."  +1,000. I couldn't agree more.

When I say it's in my hands I don't mean my hands are literally thinking and feeling emotions. I mean that the muscles in my hands are accustomed to moving in a way that creates the effect I want, even if I'm not literally feeling that way. That's what happens when you practice. This same kind of muscle memory, derived from practice, can be applied to creative processes.

Everyone's not the same so your mileage may vary, but practice will make it better and easier, for everyone, hands down.

Gabe D

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Re: Anyone feeling like shit (musically)?
« Reply #23 on: January 27, 2016, 05:36:01 pm »


"We are not all the same."  +1,000. I couldn't agree more.

When I say it's in my hands I don't mean my hands are literally thinking and feeling emotions. I mean that the muscles in my hands are accustomed to moving in a way that creates the effect I want, even if I'm not literally feeling that way. That's what happens when you practice. This same kind of muscle memory, derived from practice, can be applied to creative processes.

Everyone's not the same so your mileage may vary, but practice will make it better and easier, for everyone, hands down.
[/quote]

Thanks for the clarification. I'm not as "skilled" in the hands area so I'm not used to that creative process just yet. But I totally get what you are saying now. I wish I could play piano or guitar but I'm a late starter. Just started producing 3 years ago.
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Tylox

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Re: Anyone feeling like shit (musically)?
« Reply #24 on: January 27, 2016, 05:55:47 pm »
Nadav does bring up an interesting perspective. Yes, practice definitely goes a long way and is something that I think computer music producers generally don't do in the same way one would practice a traditional instrument. 

With an instrument like the piano or guitar, you just play...there is technique such as proper fingering and timing, but it is different than the usual DAW process. For the most part, you already have your sound (plus or minus a few effects) and can focus on on the melody/chord progression, etc. The recording process comes in later and the minute details can be sorted out at that time.

With a DAW, there is a lot more to worry about before things generally start to sound good. Since you are writing midi notes, I feel this stands out more since whatever you are writing is mildly set in stone. You can edit the notes all you want, but I feel like it takes a bit more effort than fiddling around on a guitar or piano, playing the same little riff until it sounds right. Mentally, if you don't get a riff right after say a guitar practicing session, it's no biggie because it is something in process and not recorded. As soon as you record or write something down, it feels different. It's easier to feel failure if it isn't perfect. For example, think of a time where you have had difficulty writing an email, but could have called the person on the phone and gotten the same message across easier, albeit not as perfect as well crafted prose.

I do; however, think emotion, imagination, and experience has just as much to do with writing good music as practice. That music has to come from somewhere!
« Last Edit: January 27, 2016, 05:58:22 pm by Tylox »

DiscoShit

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Re: Anyone feeling like shit (musically)?
« Reply #25 on: January 27, 2016, 06:05:53 pm »
I still haven't figured a way around this sort of feeling. But I honestly feel like being musically inspired plays a big role in it for me. Right now I'm not listening to anything that's really motivating me to be creative. Two albums that really made me feel at the top of my creative mindset were "a thousand suns" and "living things" by linkin park. Maybe those could help you out. Best of luck!

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Re: Anyone feeling like shit (musically)?
« Reply #26 on: January 27, 2016, 09:31:24 pm »
Contrary to popular belief, there is no such thing as innate talent. There are people who have had more exposure to an artform or skill, or people who have had more practice. But there are no people who are born gifted with no previous stimuli. Everyone has the potential to be a great composer as long as they put their 10,000 hours in. The people who pick up an instrument or DAW for the first time, and immediately have abilities beyond others who have spent more time practicing, usually already have a skill where there is overlap. Or, in some cases of autism the brain is wired in such a way where there is a natural ability, but this is extremely rare. For most people it just takes years of practice.

I personally was extremely lucky to be exposed to music even before I was born. My mother consciously sang and played violin to me while I was still in the womb because she wanted me to have musical abilities. Then when I was born she consciously taught me methods such as the Kodaly approach to further my musical abilities. Even still, if you listen to my early tracks they're absolute garbage. It still took years of practice to create anything worth listening to.

Nadav

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Re: Anyone feeling like shit (musically)?
« Reply #27 on: January 28, 2016, 01:47:47 am »
The way your fingers learn to play an instrument kinda goes like this:

There are various parts of your brain carrying the instruction to and from your fingers (remember, your fingers also tell your brain what state they're in, what they're touching, etc.): it's not just the muscles that have to contract, it's the knowledge of what sound it will make when they do, the meta-knowledge around that sound (where it is in whatever key you're playing, its role in the melody or chord, what emphasis you're giving the note, etc.), memories from when you learned and practiced playing that note, and so on.

The first time you play, a signal streaks through your brain like a lightning bolt. Just like a lightning bolt, it twists and branches as it touches each area of your brain mentioned above. (They've actually mapped this, it's fascinating.) When you practice and play that note again, that signal repeats the same route. This is complicated, and so it feels difficult. (That's why it's easy to wiggle your finger open and closed--that's just pure muscle movement. There's not all that other stuff to think about.) (That's also why it's hard to correct a bad habit.)

But just like a trail being blazed through the woods, the more time that signal travels that path, the faster and easier it becomes. You find you don't have to "think" as much. (And my argument earlier was that you don't have to "feel" as much either.)

Well, that same process applies to creating music, even without an instrument in your hands. In that case, the difference is that instead of ultimately controlling muscles in your fingers, you're controlling your ability to come up with a new melody, or chord progression, or a twist on an existing melody, or rhythm, etc. It seems weirder because the "muscle" being trained is inside the same brain that's controlling it. But it works exactly the same way.

I've been talking in sort of neurological terms. When I said "plus one thousand" to a previous comment about how we're all different, this is what I was referring to. The brain is an organ. It's a fatty mass of cells sitting in your skull. Just like the cells that make up your leg muscles or your skin, their characteristics are largely determined by your genes. Humans share 99.99% of the same genes, so our brains are 99.99% the same, but it's a fallacy to think this means there will only be 0.01% variation in outcomes, because that 0.01% gets amplified by all the things our brains allow us to do.

This is why so many scientists tore Malcolm Gladwell's "10K hours" theory to shreds. (Just one example: http://www.fastcodesign.com/3027564/asides/scientists-debunk-the-myth-that-10000-hours-of-practice-makes-you-an-expert.) I could practice golf for 10,000 hours and be a competent golfer--probably better than most people who play golf--but I will never be as good as Arnold Palmer or Tiger Woods because they have a genetic advantage. (And they're not autistic savants, either!) That 0.01% difference gets compounded at every twist and turn that a signal makes through their brains, just like a compound interest rate, so by the time we're both standing there with our golf clubs, there's a night and day difference explainable purely by genetics.

If we were all the same, then outcomes would just be a matter of who practices the most. But obviously, they aren't. Do black people just practice running more and that's why they keep dominating track and field events at the Olympics? No, they have a genetic advantage lying in the physical traits needed to run fast. Do Danes just practice standing up tall and that's why they have such a high average height? No, they have a genetic advantage lying in the physical traits needed to grow tall.

By that same token, if you believe in evolution, do you think humans split off from our ape ancestors by practicing walking upright? No, we had genes that allowed us to do that easier. Ours brains are physical objects no less subject to genetic influence than leg muscles or bone structure. Some of us will always be better than others at making music given equal amounts of practice.

That's why it's important to practice music as much as you can: you can't take a test to see how much musical talent you have, you'll only find out by making music! If you don't have much talent, you need more practice. If you have a lot of talent, practice will allow you to maximize it and help you use your talent to make big things happen in your life.

The only reason NOT to practice--to wait around instead for the right mood or something--is because you're not really serious and you don't really care about making music.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2016, 01:56:09 am by Nadav »

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Re: Anyone feeling like shit (musically)?
« Reply #28 on: January 28, 2016, 02:38:58 am »
This has been happening a lot to me lately, I haven't been able to do anything creative for a few weeks now.
never enough hours in the day

Mat_Zo

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Re: Anyone feeling like shit (musically)?
« Reply #29 on: January 28, 2016, 03:58:14 am »
There is an element of genetic memory involved sometimes, but this is just accumulated practice that transcends generations. It had to start somewhere. If the 10,000 hours doesn't make you the next Mozart, then maybe your offspring or your offspring's offspring will reap the benefits as long as the tradition of practice is maintained.