Author Topic: Work Flow ─=≡Σ((( つ><)つ  (Read 8775 times)

galaxygrl

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Work Flow ─=≡Σ((( つ><)つ
« on: January 21, 2016, 09:00:19 am »
Oiiiiiii! So I really enjoy sound design but I am terrible with finishing complete songs. I can but it's not consistently. I have a terrible work flow. I know you're suppose to separate composition from sound design, eqing, and mixing but for some reason my brain just always wants to interchange all of those things in the writing process. If you have any tips for work flow in general I would love to hear! Thank you (^_<)〜☆

museumoftechno

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Re: Work Flow ─=≡Σ((( つ><)つ
« Reply #1 on: January 21, 2016, 03:12:03 pm »
Maybe not 100% helpful... I just posted on the Mixing subforum saying I think some styles (EG less-melodic techno, or very sample-based music) are more suited to mixing as you go because they're less about traditional melodies and harmonies on separate instruments, more about grooves coming out of abstract sound (out of the mix itself).

Having said that, some advice I've heard for escaping the 16-bar loop of doom goes...

* Have separate sessions for sound design, composition and production - like, one night just make bass presets for a synth... another night just jam chords, another night jam melodies, another make riser WAVs, or distorted vocal samples... then I guess review what you've got and see if you've got enough to make a song.
* Import a song you like into a project... then find some way of writing on the timeline the broad structure of that song. Maybe it's empty, named MIDI clips in Ableton, maybe it's markers in a marker track in Cubase. Like, "16 bar intro, 8 bar build, 24 bar drop..." etc... so you can see it on the timeline. Then, organise your content into that structure. It might not sound amazing initially, but at least now you're working on small sections, in the context of building up to a whole song.
* Have a card by your screen that says "You're composing now, you can mix it some other time" to remind you.

Good luck!

galaxygrl

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Re: Work Flow ─=≡Σ((( つ><)つ
« Reply #2 on: January 23, 2016, 08:50:14 pm »
Thanks for the reply! I'm gonna try importing a song into Ableton and trying to mimic the structure today, since a lot of people have suggested that.

Joseph

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Re: Work Flow ─=≡Σ((( つ><)つ
« Reply #3 on: January 24, 2016, 09:11:25 am »
This would be the perfect thing for you...
Copy songs, literally recreate every element your ears can hear, arrange it in the same way, and get the same mix/master.
You said you enjoy sound design so this should be a lot of fun, and you'll get better at arrangements.

Like I said in another thread, don't try to be original when you're just starting out. Learning how to produce is like learning a new instrument, and a bunch of other stuff on top. You don't learn the piano by writing your own songs, you learn by copying other songs until you're good enough to write your own. Don't be afraid to rip off melodies, chord progression, arrangements, samples, and sounds from other songs.
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dominique

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Re: Work Flow ─=≡Σ((( つ><)つ
« Reply #4 on: January 24, 2016, 10:05:05 pm »
What do you think is causing you to not finish the songs? Is it because the amount of left work to do on the song becomes a bit overwhelming when you factor in mixing, sound design, etc.? One thing I've noticed is that the longer I've been producing, the easier it is for me to finish songs and be less intimidated by the amount of work there is left to do on each one. In the first few years I was producing, it was so easy for to me just say "eh, good enough" when it came to ANY part of the production, just because getting every part perfect is overwhelming as fuck. I mean, it's stressful enough just learning how to work your DAW, once you get to the mixing stage you just kind of want to say it's a wrap and walk away. The longer I've been producing, the more working Ableton has just become second nature, and the more energy I have to spend on mixing and sound design. When I first was delving into mixing, the amount of info to learn was overwhelming and I just kind of sped through EQing (going way overboard with cutting/boosting) and compression (setting the threshold all the way up, paying no attention to attack/release); I was so impatient that nothing I was doing was making any sense. I'd have so much energy going into tracks, but I'd get burnt out trying to design proper sounds and mix. But the more I kept at it, the more I learned, the more tutorials I watched and info I read, the more I actively listened to well-produced music, the easier it all became, the more energy I'd have to really get every part sounding as perfect I could, and to ultimately finish tracks. And I'm no where near mastering production and knowing everything there is to know, but working on music is so much more enjoyable than it was at the beginning and it's so much easier to finish tracks just because I know so much more than I did when I first started. All I'm saying is it's a process, and the longer you keep at it, the easier it becomes. Just don't stop keeping a good balance of learning more material, listening to good productions, and working on your own music.

Final Kindgom

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Re: Work Flow ─=≡Σ((( つ><)つ
« Reply #5 on: January 24, 2016, 10:40:52 pm »
I was saying this in another thread, but knowing where you want to go with your song helps speed up your workflow. Copy other songs and follow the structure they have to help with completing your own stuff. When you're comfortable, make up your own!

While some people say that you shouldn't mix and compose at the same time, I think it depends on how you like to work. There are no rules, just whatever you want. I used to mix while composing because mixing was the part of the process I loved doing the most. Might not have been the fastest way to do it, but it worked for me. Nowadays I finish composition before I get a chance to mix, just because I know where I want the song to go very early on. Explore all your options and find what works for you.

cryophonik

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Re: Work Flow ─=≡Σ((( つ><)つ
« Reply #6 on: January 25, 2016, 01:41:50 am »
I know you're suppose to separate composition from sound design, eqing, and mixing but for some reason my brain just always wants to interchange all of those things in the writing process.

As others have said, there really aren't any rules and, when it comes to electronic music, sound design is a large part of the composition process.  It's not like, for example, rock or classical music, where the composer knows what a guitar, or violin, or piano sounds like and what their range is, so he/she can focus on the composition and arrangement.  In electronic music, you almost need to find or create the sound before you can write to it, make sure it fits the sweet spot of the range, use the right effects etc. So, I would go with what works for you and only work within "rules" that get results for you.
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Lokan

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Re: Work Flow ─=≡Σ((( つ><)つ
« Reply #7 on: January 25, 2016, 03:09:23 am »
I always start with sound designing, then make main 8 bar loop. Once I'm pretty sure about the loop, I move on to sketching song structure.
After that, my workflow is quite messy, too. When I'm running out of creative idea, I work on making new sound, mixing. Otherwise, I try to work fast so that I don't lose my idea.
No, try again.

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Re: Work Flow ─=≡Σ((( つ><)つ
« Reply #8 on: January 25, 2016, 04:21:13 am »
Here are a few workflow tips I've been collecting:

  • Organize your library. A bunch of presets in your VST's User folder and a folder on your desktop called SAMPLES is not a library. Start categorizing everything you have by what sound or effect it has, and not the company that made it or program that it's from. Even if you make everything from scratch, you want to be able to remove as many obstacles as possible between you and your songwriting. The more time you spend searching for the right sound, the further you get from a good creative flow.
  • Don't try to do everything at once (as has been said). It's really easy to get overwhelmed, so find some way to establish a routine for working on the various things you need to get done: Learning the tools of the trade, creating musical ideas, cleaning and organizing your projects and workspace, sound design, composing and arranging songs, mixing your work, mastering your work, etc. If nothing else, version out the separate aspects of your songwriting process! Have Song_SoundDesign_1, _2, Song_Composition_1, Song_Arrangement_1, _2, Song_Mixdown_1, _2, then end with Song_Master and Song_FINAL.
  • Don't just divide up your time, divide up your goals along a timeline. Write down what you want done, what steps need to be done to achieve that goal, and give yourself a deadline for them: Have the song concept written out by next Friday, have the sound design worked out by Monday, have the composition and arrangement done by the end of the month, have the mixdown finished within a week, etc. Put but check boxes next to each step and start checking them off as you pass them. Keep that posted somewhere that you have to see it every single day.
  • Decide how you're going to approach the song before you start composing. Do you want to start from the bottom up, where you build your rhythmic elements and atonal sounds and design a simple musical element on top of that? Or do you want to start from the top down, where you design a hook or melodic idea of some sort and create a rhythmic bed to fit under it? What is the focus of the song? The drums? The bassline? A vocal? What emotions do you want the audience to feel when they listen to the song? Ask these kinds of questions so that when you sit down to write music, you have a game plan to work with.
  • Practice subtractive arranging - Build up a solid loop of what you think comprises the primary musical elements of your song (e.g. Drums, Bassline, Chords, Melody, SFX) and duplicate it out for however long you want the arrangement to be. Place arrangement markers for the different sections of your song. Start removing everything that shouldn't be in those sections, and you'll start to get an idea of how to design transitions, introduce variety, and arrive at a finished track faster than sitting in loop land asking yourself what you could do to create a song out of this.
  • Remember, some of the best songs were made with some of the worst equipment. It's easy to get overwhelmed with the variety of options and become paralyzed - so limitations are your friend, not your enemy! If you only know how to place audio, just place audio. If all you know how to make is supersaws, make a song using entirely supersaws! Spend your music creating time showing off how much you can do with the skills you have, and let your personal time be spent slowly adding skills to that toolset.

iamtesko

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Re: Work Flow ─=≡Σ((( つ><)つ
« Reply #9 on: January 25, 2016, 04:34:03 am »
Delete all the patches that you don't use or sound bad in Massive, Serum, whatever and narrow it down to a few quality ones.

Better yet, and I'm not sure if other daws have something similar but if you're in ableton, save each patch in an instrument rack and put all those instruments in a folder in your personal library sorted by type or timbre. Saves the time of going through your VST's organizational system. Also what I've done is save an EQ and a utility with the gain mapped to Macro 1. I use EQ and volume automation on almost every track so I save a bunch of time by having it already pre loaded. For patches that have macros in the VST, say the vibrato macro in massive, I'll assign that to an external macro in the Instrument Rack so it's already set up next time and I don't have to open up massive.

Also make use of setting default tracks. I have mine so that every Audio or Midi Track opens with an EQ and Utility. Midi tracks automatically open up with massive. I use massive and serum about 50/50 so half the time I need a sound I don't even need to go looking for my VST.

Lastly, everything Mussar said. It's all solid advice, have a plan before you write!