Author Topic: Question About Compressors, Multiband Compressors & Balance  (Read 7861 times)

Lydian

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Question About Compressors, Multiband Compressors & Balance
« on: January 20, 2016, 08:14:16 pm »
I have a few questions related to compression.

Question 1: I often hear that the faster the release time of a compressor the louder the sound will be. I've noticed however that when I have longer release time on my compressor it basically "smooths" the sound out so that the quiet parts of instrument get louder. How is it that a faster release time makes things louder?

Question 2: In regards to multiband compression and normal compression what is the difference between the two? I read that a compressor basically lowers the volume of ALL the frequencies of a sound even if it's only the bass that's triggering the compressors. If that's the case then how does a normal compressor make things louder if the balance between the frequency being compressed are remaining the same?


Question 3: A multiband compressor on the other hand I heard can reduce the volume of only the bass while keeping the mids and highs uncompressed. In this case isn't the multiband compressor a better tool for achieving balance?

Question 3: What elements of a mix usually have multiband compression on them?

Question 4: What the heck is "glue" compression?

Question 5: Let's say I had a kick that was hitting at -6db and a pad that was playing at -12db. If I were to set a compressor with a -12db threshold and a ratio of 6:1 could I essentially get the kick and the pad to be playing at the exact same volume therefore improving the balance of the mix?

Question 6: When should I use a compressor vs just using a normal volume fader to balance the elements of a mix?


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Schematic

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Re: Question About Compressors, Multiband Compressors & Balance
« Reply #1 on: January 20, 2016, 09:04:27 pm »
Answer 1: The faster the release time the quicker the full amount of make-up gain will be applied. Sort of. A slow release time will 'smooth' as you say, keeping a somewhat constant gain reduction in effect. A faster release time will continually being resetting back to 0 GR so all the bits in between loud transients are getting boosted, and overall it appears louder. With that said, the trade-off for quicker release times is that it becomes more prone to pumping, smearing, and distortion.

Answer 2: A regular stereo compressor doesn't care what frequencies it's working on, it's purely a dynamic processor so it will affect all frequencies all at once. In the same fashion as the limiter (a limiter is just a high-ratio compressor, in it's simplest form) it pushes peaks down, creating headroom so that the overall volume can be increased. It makes things sound 'loud' by reducing the gap between high peaks and low peaks. A multiband compressor does the same thing but it first splits the signal into multiple bands, and applies a compressor to each of those split bands, so each range can have it's own compression settings, unaffected by the other bands.

Answer 3: Partially answered above. As for is it 'better'... yes and no. Usually no, but that's my opinion coming from the mastering perspective, and many will argue the opposite. To me multiband is a surgical tool that should be used when everything else has failed, generally if I'm having to put a multiband comp on a master it means that something has gone horribly wrong in the mix. If you have access to each instrument, fix the problem there. Generally compression is something done to tie things together, so when you get into splitting them apart even further with a multiband things can get really messy.

Answer 3.5 (you have two question 3s!): While I said I don't like multibands on masters, they do occasionally have execellent uses in the mix. My main example would be on a distorted bassline (think neurofunk-style drum & bass) that's a bit all over the place. A multiband comp would let you tame the sub range to keep it at a constant level while still allowing the upper harmonics to have dynamics and movement.

Answer 4: "Glue" is just the term used when you're using compression to get that feel of cohesion between all of the elements, making the track feel like one thing instead of obvious layers that don't quite fit together. Often what it means at a technical level is slower RMS detection circuits instead of peak.

Answer 5: You're forgetting the element of TIME! When the kick hits, the compressor will act on everything (including the pad) pushing it all down. The kick will be finished quickly, but the pad is long so you'll hear it gradually rise back to volume as the compressor releases. So they'll never be at the same volume at the same time... they interact. But also think of the nature of a kick vs a pad, a loud transient vs a steady tone... you wouldn't WANT those to be at the same level, or the pad would sound insanely loud and the kick would be tiny. Balance does not mean everything is the same, balance means everything is comfortable relative to each other.

Answer 6: Simplest version - when you want to change the dynamic range, not the volume. Reach for the fader first, if you're finding that an instrument is standing out too much in some spots and then getting buried in others, that's when it's time to reach for the compressor.
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manducator

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Re: Question About Compressors, Multiband Compressors & Balance
« Reply #2 on: January 20, 2016, 09:20:39 pm »
Schematic has done a wonderful job to answer your questions, I can't add much to that.

Just a little example on how you can use a multiband compressor (although Schematic already answered this with his example of the bassline); on kickdrums.

Kicks can be divided into the tud, main body and low end (sub). The tud (or attack or whatever you want to call the clicky sound most kicks start with) is in lots of cases around 1 kHz, the body is around 60-400 Hz and the sub is below 60 Hz. Don't nail me on these numbers, every kick has its own sound.

With multiband compression you can change the dynamics of each component of the kick. Do some compression or volume changes on the high frequencies to change the clickiness of the kick and if a kick is too boomy, you can lower the volume of the band that spans everything below 60 Hz, and it doesn't affect the body of the kick.

With a regular compressor you can only change the dynamics of the kick as a whole.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2016, 09:22:50 pm by manducator »

Lydian

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Re: Question About Compressors, Multiband Compressors & Balance
« Reply #3 on: January 20, 2016, 10:03:11 pm »
Answer 1: The faster the release time the quicker the full amount of make-up gain will be applied. Sort of. A slow release time will 'smooth' as you say, keeping a somewhat constant gain reduction in effect. A faster release time will continually being resetting back to 0 GR so all the bits in between loud transients are getting boosted, and overall it appears louder. With that said, the trade-off for quicker release times is that it becomes more prone to pumping, smearing, and distortion.

Answer 2: A regular stereo compressor doesn't care what frequencies it's working on, it's purely a dynamic processor so it will affect all frequencies all at once. In the same fashion as the limiter (a limiter is just a high-ratio compressor, in it's simplest form) it pushes peaks down, creating headroom so that the overall volume can be increased. It makes things sound 'loud' by reducing the gap between high peaks and low peaks. A multiband compressor does the same thing but it first splits the signal into multiple bands, and applies a compressor to each of those split bands, so each range can have it's own compression settings, unaffected by the other bands.

Answer 3: Partially answered above. As for is it 'better'... yes and no. Usually no, but that's my opinion coming from the mastering perspective, and many will argue the opposite. To me multiband is a surgical tool that should be used when everything else has failed, generally if I'm having to put a multiband comp on a master it means that something has gone horribly wrong in the mix. If you have access to each instrument, fix the problem there. Generally compression is something done to tie things together, so when you get into splitting them apart even further with a multiband things can get really messy.

Answer 3.5 (you have two question 3s!): While I said I don't like multibands on masters, they do occasionally have execellent uses in the mix. My main example would be on a distorted bassline (think neurofunk-style drum & bass) that's a bit all over the place. A multiband comp would let you tame the sub range to keep it at a constant level while still allowing the upper harmonics to have dynamics and movement.

Answer 4: "Glue" is just the term used when you're using compression to get that feel of cohesion between all of the elements, making the track feel like one thing instead of obvious layers that don't quite fit together. Often what it means at a technical level is slower RMS detection circuits instead of peak.

Answer 5: You're forgetting the element of TIME! When the kick hits, the compressor will act on everything (including the pad) pushing it all down. The kick will be finished quickly, but the pad is long so you'll hear it gradually rise back to volume as the compressor releases. So they'll never be at the same volume at the same time... they interact. But also think of the nature of a kick vs a pad, a loud transient vs a steady tone... you wouldn't WANT those to be at the same level, or the pad would sound insanely loud and the kick would be tiny. Balance does not mean everything is the same, balance means everything is comfortable relative to each other.

Answer 6: Simplest version - when you want to change the dynamic range, not the volume. Reach for the fader first, if you're finding that an instrument is standing out too much in some spots and then getting buried in others, that's when it's time to reach for the compressor.

Let me get this straight... The gain reduction is more consistent when it comes to slow release times versus fast release times. Instead of going say from -3db and back to 0 all the time it will stay at -3db gain reduction more consistently. Resulting in a more consistent volume.

A faster release time on the other hand consistently goes back to 0db of gain reduction resulting in that pumping effect.

What Im not getting is shouldn't the slower release time have less dynamic range due to the consistent 3db of compression? And by that logic aren't instruments with less dynamic range louder?

I really want to reply to the rest of these right now but sadly im at school and don't type very well on my phone. Thanks for the really detailed reply. Im gonna try to get back to you when I get home. I only had time to reply to answer 1.

EDIT: Okay so I spent some more time thinking about this and suddenly something clicked.

"A faster release time will continually being resetting back to 0 GR so all the bits in between loud transients are getting boosted, and it appears louder."

Let me get this straight. A faster release time will compress ONLY the loud transients of the waveform. This brings the louder parts CLOSER to the quiet parts.  The reason why they sound louder is because now the volume is at a more consistent level.

A slower release time on the other hand compresses not only the loud transients but all the quiet stuff that comes after that. So if a compressor was at a consistent -3db of gain reduction it wouldn't just be making the loud transients quieter. It would be making the quiet parts even quieter as well. This results in little change to the dynamic range because while you are compressing the transients they AREN'T GETTING ANY CLOSER to the quiet parts.

So in order for there to be a decrease in the dynamic range that "pumping" effect is necessary correct? That variation between the gain reduction is needed otherwise it would essentially be the same as lowering the volume fader by 3db as and calling it a day.

Maybe I'm over thinking it but is this correct?
« Last Edit: January 20, 2016, 10:33:23 pm by Lydian »
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Schematic

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Re: Question About Compressors, Multiband Compressors & Balance
« Reply #4 on: January 20, 2016, 11:21:53 pm »
Yep you got it.

I oversimplified it slightly, but that's the gist of it. With the longer release times it the gain reduction will still be varying, but it won't release as much, or release back to 0 as often. So it wouldn't just be pinned at -3 GR constantly, but it might fluctuate between -2 and -3 instead of between 0 and -3. You'll get some level increase, but beyond a certain point it will stop getting louder (until you hit a quiet section and it releases and sounds really weird).

And yes for that extreme volume gain the tradeoff is potential pumping, you want to try to time the release to the music so that it's at least pumping in a musical fashion. Or you can go with an near-instantaneous release time (i.e 1ms) which won't necessarily pump in the same fashion but at that point it becomes more like a clipper and begins to distort.
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Re: Question About Compressors, Multiband Compressors & Balance
« Reply #5 on: January 21, 2016, 02:17:28 am »
Thanks so much schematic. You've literally just gave me a huge epiphany in regards to being able to match what I'm hearing from a compressor on an intellectual level. I can't wait to get home and test all this stuff out.

In regards to question #4 you mentioned that on a technical level all "glue" does to a mix is it creates slower RMS detection circuits instead of peak. What exactly does that mean? I understand that you have Peaks and RMS and that RMS is the average volume level. I don't understand what you mean by detection circuits though.

Finally in question #5 I understand what you're saying. I originally thought that the compression would only push down the kick but since its acting on everything it would also reduce the volume of the pad as well. Things are finally making sense now. Thankyou. :)
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Schematic

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Re: Question About Compressors, Multiband Compressors & Balance
« Reply #6 on: January 21, 2016, 03:23:58 am »
The detection circuit for 'glue' I just mean that it's likely designed to react to the averaged signal instead of the peak signal. So things like kicks and snares will pass through relatively untouched and instead the compressor will react to the slower-moving changes in the track's composition.

This is why it can be usefuly to have more than one type of compressor. Something that works more on an RMS level and another that works more on a peak level, each in smaller amounts than you might do if you were only using one. They're doing two different things and can in turn get a more transparent or musical result, but it all boils down to taste really. Experiment and find out what works for each particular track, now that you've got a better understanding of how they work it should be easier to apply them in different ways to get a particular result.
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Re: Question About Compressors, Multiband Compressors & Balance
« Reply #7 on: January 21, 2016, 04:36:54 pm »
Answer 1: The faster the release time the quicker the full amount of make-up gain will be applied. Sort of. A slow release time will 'smooth' as you say, keeping a somewhat constant gain reduction in effect. A faster release time will continually being resetting back to 0 GR so all the bits in between loud transients are getting boosted, and overall it appears louder. With that said, the trade-off for quicker release times is that it becomes more prone to pumping, smearing, and distortion.

Answer 2: A regular stereo compressor doesn't care what frequencies it's working on, it's purely a dynamic processor so it will affect all frequencies all at once. In the same fashion as the limiter (a limiter is just a high-ratio compressor, in it's simplest form) it pushes peaks down, creating headroom so that the overall volume can be increased. It makes things sound 'loud' by reducing the gap between high peaks and low peaks. A multiband compressor does the same thing but it first splits the signal into multiple bands, and applies a compressor to each of those split bands, so each range can have it's own compression settings, unaffected by the other bands.

Answer 3: Partially answered above. As for is it 'better'... yes and no. Usually no, but that's my opinion coming from the mastering perspective, and many will argue the opposite. To me multiband is a surgical tool that should be used when everything else has failed, generally if I'm having to put a multiband comp on a master it means that something has gone horribly wrong in the mix. If you have access to each instrument, fix the problem there. Generally compression is something done to tie things together, so when you get into splitting them apart even further with a multiband things can get really messy.

Answer 3.5 (you have two question 3s!): While I said I don't like multibands on masters, they do occasionally have execellent uses in the mix. My main example would be on a distorted bassline (think neurofunk-style drum & bass) that's a bit all over the place. A multiband comp would let you tame the sub range to keep it at a constant level while still allowing the upper harmonics to have dynamics and movement.

Answer 4: "Glue" is just the term used when you're using compression to get that feel of cohesion between all of the elements, making the track feel like one thing instead of obvious layers that don't quite fit together. Often what it means at a technical level is slower RMS detection circuits instead of peak.

Answer 5: You're forgetting the element of TIME! When the kick hits, the compressor will act on everything (including the pad) pushing it all down. The kick will be finished quickly, but the pad is long so you'll hear it gradually rise back to volume as the compressor releases. So they'll never be at the same volume at the same time... they interact. But also think of the nature of a kick vs a pad, a loud transient vs a steady tone... you wouldn't WANT those to be at the same level, or the pad would sound insanely loud and the kick would be tiny. Balance does not mean everything is the same, balance means everything is comfortable relative to each other.

Answer 6: Simplest version - when you want to change the dynamic range, not the volume. Reach for the fader first, if you're finding that an instrument is standing out too much in some spots and then getting buried in others, that's when it's time to reach for the compressor.

Ya boy knows his stuff. This was a great read thank you