Author Topic: Being able to follow every element of your mix throughout a track  (Read 6278 times)

Bertie South

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How important is this? Obviously if one element completely drowns out another you're doing something wrong. On the other hand, if for example, a sweep or build-up effect (or several) partly obscure another part of your track, but you can still hear the fundamentals as long as you consciously listen for it, is this a problem or no? I always assumed yes, but I'm not sure.

The example that comes to mind is Andrew Bayer's Counting The Points (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WP47nuuOU_I). The synths are very intense in the middle section and you can't perfectly follow all the notes or hits of some of the subtler elements. But I'd hardly accuse Andrew Bayer of shoddy mixing ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Xan

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Re: Being able to follow every element of your mix throughout a track
« Reply #1 on: January 15, 2016, 07:15:21 pm »
It's really not a problem as long as each instrument has a space. It all accumulates to the whole soundscape.
But clearly in the song you posted, they want the synths to be the main driving force there and all the other elements either dropped out or were just quieter in comparison.

Marrow Machines

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Re: Being able to follow every element of your mix throughout a track
« Reply #2 on: January 15, 2016, 10:42:36 pm »
Some times things are going to drown out others.

To control this you don't add so many elements or musical concepts, going on at once. It'll just sound busy or muddy if you can' control it.

Typically, if you're trying to follow every thing in the track, you're doing something wrong and the idea gets washed out by "if every thing is important than nothing is important"; you gotta prioritize what's happening for a section(s) of the song.

This also is where competing starts, and that's kind of ok in some contexts but not sought after.

Also consider an emotional impact that you want the listeners to have.

after listening to your video example, i can't seem to figure out what exactly it is you're asking out side of "if you don't hear every thing at one point is that ok?" and i'll say that it's alright. Depending on the play back system and quality of speakers is when you'll actually open up new found textures and components in a song you may not have heard with out the aid of the system. This isn't rock and roll where some times you can't even hear the kick drum, but you can feel it.


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baircave

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Re: Being able to follow every element of your mix throughout a track
« Reply #3 on: January 15, 2016, 11:18:12 pm »
yep the first step to a clean sounding mix is a good arrangement. natural songwriters have a knack for spacing elements in time in such a way that there isn't too much overcrowding of a certain part of the frequency spectrum at one time.

of course, you might not always want things to sound super pristine and obscuring vocals or other elements is pretty fun/cool at times so definitely experiment and use your ears. but it's not a hard and fast rule that every element needs to be super pristine and identifiable at all times.

if you feel like your arrangement is good but your mix sounds too busy don't be afraid to do a little cutting with the EQ. subtractive EQ is your friend :)

FarleyCZ

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Re: Being able to follow every element of your mix throughout a track
« Reply #4 on: January 15, 2016, 11:37:04 pm »
I'm definitely not someone who should give advices on this, but I think that if it happens occasionally, it doesn't matter that much. Especially in repetitive-ish types of electronic music as the listener probably have heard the masked element four times already.

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Kinesthetics

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Re: Being able to follow every element of your mix throughout a track
« Reply #5 on: January 16, 2016, 01:10:30 am »
Any time you start to build huge amounts of intensity in a track, you're bound to have a few elements lose out in the end. You can do adjustments on the fly with automation, such as moving EQ bands or lowering/increasing volumes, to help keep parts in the frame, but not every sound will make it through in the thick of it.

The thing is, they don't necessarily have to. The human ear can only tune into and focus on about three or four distinct sounds at once. That's why simplicity sells so well: you only need a few decent sounds or 'hooks' in the track to keep someone attentive. The same applies for intense parts or huge transitions. If you have a big riser or FX track taking centre stage, it's going to snap focus away from other bits. That works in your favour! Let the other parts fall to the wayside for a moment, otherwise it's going to sound way too busy, and that's what starts to lose listeners.

If you have a listen to some of Andrew's tracks, especially in those big, intense parts before the track reaches a climax (Nobody Told Me is a great example), there's at least ten or so sounds going off at once. Pads, sweeps, chords, synth plucks, you name it. But listen to how each one shifts around and shares the limelight, rather than fighting to stay there. The chords come in, but then lose some sheen as the supersaw riff comes forth. When the pads reach their swell, the little melodic sounds in the background take a seat momentarily. You can really control how your track impacts upon listeners when you keep in mind that only a few parts will hook them at a time.

It's how producers like Andrew can get away with such a dense, populated arrangement, but not sound like a big mess. Listen to how parts share the spotlight. You only need a few hooks at a time to keep a listener engaged.
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Cosmic Fugue

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Re: Being able to follow every element of your mix throughout a track
« Reply #6 on: January 16, 2016, 12:26:40 pm »
I think it's fine to have lots of things going on at once, and it's OK if one part is hard to follow during a section. The important thing is that each section of the track should have ONE CLEAR THING to follow. For example in a vocal track the listener is going to focus on the vocal, and in a rock song's guitar solo they're going to focus on the guitar. In EDM you have to be careful to make something the focus for each section, as it's tempting to make all of the synths stand out equally.

As Kinesthetics said, your parts should take turns taking the front of the stage... and it's completely OK to automate the volume down on a part, simplify it, filter it, or send it further away with reverb when it's not the focus.
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Bertie South

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Re: Being able to follow every element of your mix throughout a track
« Reply #7 on: January 17, 2016, 10:25:12 am »
Thanks for the tips in this thread y'all. Appreciate it!
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