Author Topic: Tips for Clean Mix like Professionals  (Read 13915 times)

ShawOfficial

  • Sub Bass
  • *
  • Posts: 41
  • Honor: 1
    • https://soundcloud.com/sketched-music
    • https://twitter.com/TheRealShawOffi
    • View Profile
Tips for Clean Mix like Professionals
« on: January 14, 2016, 04:37:16 pm »
I've been told by many guys that instruments should have their own space.
This involves widening the sound and also panning.
But as far as I can tell from how much Dance Music I've been listening to for the past 2 and a half years,I've yet to hear a professional track with extreme panning or even to an extent that you can really make out that it's favouring one side more than the other.
Take Hardwell's latest single,Blackout
If you haven't heard it already,give it a shot.

As for the drop,I can make out that the leads are widened,but I haven't heard an instrument that's panned.
Can anyone explain,how these professionals are doing their Stereo Imaging and just how exactly are most of the instruments occupying space at the centre?
All of us are students.Except some of us just stop learning.And I need you to keep going.There isn't going to be a happy ending,there's just gonna be happy struggle.But the struggle will be worth it.
My Soundcloud:
https://soundcloud.com/sketched-music

lopryo

  • Guest
Re: Tips for Clean Mix like Professionals
« Reply #1 on: January 14, 2016, 05:44:53 pm »
I think when people say all sounds need a "space" in the mix, it's usually referring to the frequency spectrum, not the stereo field. width is also important, but it's more important to not have too many elements overlapping in the same frequency range, especially the low-end.

calgarc

  • Subsonic
  • Posts: 17
  • Honor: 2
    • calgar_c
    • View Profile
    • calgar c official site
Re: Tips for Clean Mix like Professionals
« Reply #2 on: January 14, 2016, 07:45:57 pm »
put 12 humans in a small elevator...

that is basically what your sounds are doing... everything needs its personal space... the leads sit somewhere in the mix and have their own freq's the drums, the bass, the pads etc...

you can use widening plugins, EQ's, and Reverbs to help with that. What I like to do is mix in groups (bucket mixing) so all my sounds are grouped by section (leads, drums, bass, vocals etc...) and then I mute the group channels and bring them up one by one until they sit nicely where they should. I can add master FX to the groups If I want a bit of reverb or something to spice up that section.

manducator

  • Low Mid
  • **
  • Posts: 236
  • Honor: 46
    • manducator
    • View Profile
Re: Tips for Clean Mix like Professionals
« Reply #3 on: January 14, 2016, 08:48:52 pm »
When you listen to the first 10 seconds of this song, you hear some kind of white noise and it sweeps from left to right and back through automation. That makes the intro interesting.

Of course you don't want to create a mix that's lopsided. The main parts (kick, snare, lead and bass) are in the middle. Genres like this play around much with FX. Like a pingpong delay on hihats or on risers, stuff like that.

@ 1:00 you hear a lead (+bassline?) that's very wide. Yes, it's in the middle but there are also parts on the sides left and right. Probably small delays that are panned, wide reverbs (there are reverb plugis with 200% wideness, for instance). If this was just one synth in the middle, it wouldn't sound that massive. The guy who mixed this, did a great job, making use of stereo width!

But you're right, don't expect to find a certain instrument completely panned to 1 side.

Marrow Machines

  • Mid
  • ***
  • Posts: 788
  • Honor: 101
  • Electronic Music
    • marrow-machines
    • MarrowMachines
    • View Profile
Re: Tips for Clean Mix like Professionals
« Reply #4 on: January 15, 2016, 12:02:36 am »
I think when people say all sounds need a "space" in the mix, it's usually referring to the frequency spectrum, not the stereo field. width is also important, but it's more important to not have too many elements overlapping in the same frequency range, especially the low-end.

You need actual physical space as well as a place to occupy, in order to have your sounds to take up space and not be crowded.

I do not agree with your bias, but i will say that both are incredibly important if you want to achieve a balance in your mix, other wise you'd literally be having to many things on top of each other but still occupy the same space.

think of it as a box  where people are standing on top of each other. Different frequency ranges, but nothing is being panned because you stacked em up like jenga blocks. This applies even if the dimension are capable to having people more spread out, which you do and that's called panning.

It's a combination of three things which are: frequency, panning (or physical space), and volume (how pronounced you are at filling up your physical and frequency space)

Not to mention width control, which roughly falls into panning and physical occupation of space.
Josh Huval: Honestly, the guys who are making good art are spending their time making it.

Dichotomy

  • Sub Bass
  • *
  • Posts: 60
  • Honor: 42
    • dichotomy
    • djdichotomy
    • View Profile
Re: Tips for Clean Mix like Professionals
« Reply #5 on: January 15, 2016, 03:34:40 am »
I hear some distinct stereo work in the Hardwell track, more stereo separation & panning than it seems you are acknowledging. Obviously no lead instruments are pushed far right or left... but many textures are. Maybe open it up in a DAW and listen to it in mono... then again in stereo with your eyes closed for contrast. If you care to, audition different parts with an X-Y plot and phase analysis (the intro and outtros can reveal what instruments were where later/earlier in the track).

Google "3d mixing"... or yourtube :
here's a neat one!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ftHcn5N3bB0
I wonder what program this is... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Bc5TYO_1Ik  :D
« Last Edit: January 15, 2016, 04:15:00 am by Dichotomy »

manducator

  • Low Mid
  • **
  • Posts: 236
  • Honor: 46
    • manducator
    • View Profile
Re: Tips for Clean Mix like Professionals
« Reply #6 on: January 15, 2016, 07:13:17 am »
I wonder what program this is... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Bc5TYO_1Ik  :D

This reminds me of this old video (1990?). He used almost the same graphics to explain mixing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TEjOdqZFvhY

Dichotomy

  • Sub Bass
  • *
  • Posts: 60
  • Honor: 42
    • dichotomy
    • djdichotomy
    • View Profile
Re: Tips for Clean Mix like Professionals
« Reply #7 on: January 15, 2016, 07:36:46 am »
This reminds me of this old video (1990?). He used almost the same graphics to explain mixing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TEjOdqZFvhY
Yea... I found that 'ol thing. I didn't post it because it was so far outside of the EDM scene. Psychoacoustics and the principles described haven't changed, of course. If you can get past the production value, there's a ton of information in the video. Here's the same, separated. https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLHE30Qq0gp9B9i8EZDzAE_DDMkOtdVImi
« Last Edit: January 15, 2016, 09:17:02 am by Dichotomy »


Dichotomy

  • Sub Bass
  • *
  • Posts: 60
  • Honor: 42
    • dichotomy
    • djdichotomy
    • View Profile
Re: Tips for Clean Mix like Professionals
« Reply #9 on: January 15, 2016, 07:49:25 am »
« Last Edit: January 15, 2016, 08:18:18 am by Dichotomy »

museumoftechno

  • Sub Bass
  • *
  • Posts: 32
  • Honor: 22
    • museumoftechno
    • museumoftechno
    • View Profile
Re: Tips for Clean Mix like Professionals
« Reply #10 on: January 15, 2016, 03:53:33 pm »
There are lots of ways to spread a single sound out in stereo:
  • Autopanning them so they swoosh across the stereo field
  • Using "doubler" plugins that use short delays panned left and right (look out for mono compatibility problems)
  • Longer, tempo-synced delays panned more or less hard left and right
  • Stereo reverbs... maybe with some mid-side processing to widen the reverb?
  • Chorusing (watch out for mono compatibility again)
  • Xfer Records/Massive's "Dimension Expander" effect - like a stereo delay/reverb hybrid but designed to be mono compatible
  • Using a stereo widening processor on the sound itself (mono compatibility warning!)

Mono compatibility? Well... if you take a sound, and a slightly delayed copy of the sound, that were panned left and right, and you turn the audio into mono... then the two copies of the sound will interfere with each other. Depending on the length of the delay between them, certain frequencies will be boosted and others will cancel out. Worst case, that sound will be degraded or made much more quiet by conversion to mono. Any effect that creates stereo using delay might be susceptible to this kind of problem.

But there are alternatives to just widening one sound.

One trick often used with vocals is to record 2 or 3 takes of a verse or chorus, and pan one hard left and one hard right. ...And maybe a 3rd, placed in the centre. This wins you a load of stereo width, and it's mono compatible, because the sounds aren't exactly the same: they're separate recordings, so there'll be differences in pitch, timing and tone, so if you collapse the stereo mix to mono, they shouldn't cancel each other out significantly.

And there are related tricks you can do with synths and samples:

Maybe a main synth in the middle, with not much energy above 7kHz, plus two different synths (different plugins/wave forms/filters/tunings/modulation... different NOTES?), panned hard left and right, and EQ'd so they have a sizzling top end? Or at least, side-panned synths that are timbrally distinct from the lead in the middle.

Or, maybe rather than one warm, muted pad, you have 2 different ones, again maybe from totally different synths, EQ'd differently, maybe playing different notes, and panned left and right?

Or, instead of one stereo reverb, how about 2 different mono reverbs (1 plate vs 1 spring?) panned left and right?

Or 2 different ride cymbals (an acoustic ride vs a 909 ride?) playing the same pattern but stereo panned?

Also, based on an answer to a question I asked here a few days ago...

I've been using stereo percussion loops (EG a bar of mixed latin percussion, a live congas loop). But I've been experimenting with making them mono, then panning the mono signals. It feels like... maybe 2 different mono'd samples panned apart, sound more spacious than the same 2 stereo samples similarly panned. I guess because the stereo samples overlap more, whereas the mono samples occupy only a slice of the stereo field?
« Last Edit: January 15, 2016, 04:00:41 pm by museumoftechno »

manducator

  • Low Mid
  • **
  • Posts: 236
  • Honor: 46
    • manducator
    • View Profile
Re: Tips for Clean Mix like Professionals
« Reply #11 on: January 15, 2016, 06:22:35 pm »
There are lots of ways to spread a single sound out in stereo:

Those are all great suggestions!

Also something you can do is this:

Put 1 mono sound in the middle of the mix, pan 1 delay of that sound extremely left and the same delay extremely right. Phase invert 1 of the 2 delays. It sounds superwide and when you make the output mono, the 2 delays cancel each other out and you still have perfect mono of the original sound.

Scribit

  • Sub Bass
  • *
  • Posts: 84
  • Honor: 6
    • scribit
    • scribitmusic
    • View Profile
Re: Tips for Clean Mix like Professionals
« Reply #12 on: January 16, 2016, 07:12:34 pm »
Google 3D mixing, it has a similar philosophy to mixing you might find interesting.
"Very very way more stronger" - Carnage 2k15

matthewharrison

  • Sub Bass
  • *
  • Posts: 35
  • Honor: 3
    • http://soundcloud.com/matthew-harrison/
    • View Profile
Re: Tips for Clean Mix like Professionals
« Reply #13 on: January 18, 2016, 03:08:53 am »
Well, my experience has been something like this...

When I first started out I paid no attention to any of that, but the more I got into music the more I read up about proper techniques & all this online. After reading online I began trying to mix, the understanding I was getting from online was to give everything its own space, as you said, I would try to achieve this through EQ and many other ways, but it would still never work right.

I've personally found that my major problem was sound selection. I would choose too many things with strong harmonics in the same place on the frequency spectrum and when I would try to EQ things out on one sound or another it would kill the sound & would sound no good anymore, but just leaving it makes the mix a mess.

My best advice from personal experience is first and foremost make sure the sound selection works. If it doesn't work together no amount of EQ/panning or whatever will help in fixing it. That's my opinion anyways!

Also, depending on what DAW you use, check out splice for some more professional sounding tracks & download them to have a look at the mixing work on them, or google for templates or projects of professionally mixed tracks. Seeing what goes on inside one may help as well!

All the best!
"I just had one of those brain learnin experiences"