Author Topic: Is panning necessary? (Read 14179 times)

Red X · « **on:** January 13, 2016, 12:33:11 am »

Lets say my track has minimal instruments kick,clap,hi hat,piano,pluck bass can I make a song without panning and just widening the piano

I will experiment and maybe just listen to a bunch of songs probably some with minimal instruments to find my answer but if someone already did the work it'll be nice to know
I don't know if I'm worried about the wrong thing but I don't want to make a track and just pan stuff assuming I'm mixing like a pro.

kiiskamusic · « **Reply #1 on:** January 13, 2016, 01:01:06 am »

In addition to being a useful mixing tool when mixing sounds that occupy the same space (or just trying to widen up the stereo image) in my opinion panning can also be used for effect when there is minimal instruments involved. I quite like listening to minimal songs that pan instruments for effect. I think you are assuming that panning is only neccessary as a mixing technique. Luckily, there are no rules when making electronic music, so experiment and if it sounds good to you, use it!

-K

Red X · « **Reply #2 on:** January 13, 2016, 01:17:38 am »

Quote from: kiiskamusic on January 13, 2016, 01:01:06 am

In addition to being a useful mixing tool when mixing sounds that occupy the same space (or just trying to widen up the stereo image) in my opinion panning can also be used for effect when there is minimal instruments involved. I quite like listening to minimal songs that pan instruments for effect. I think you are assuming that panning is only neccessary as a mixing technique. Luckily, there are no rules when making electronic music, so experiment and if it sounds good to you, use it!

-K

Thanks for that I think it helped a lot I was able to go back to recent tracks that I attempted to mix and cleaned some stuff up I felt like panning was something I had to do without fully understanding it for example in my track I panned a pad that wasn't even fighting for a space on the mix until a certain break which then I automated it to pan and it sounded great!

kiiskamusic · « **Reply #3 on:** January 13, 2016, 01:35:00 am »

Awesome man, keep experimenting!

Kinesthetics · « **Reply #4 on:** January 13, 2016, 03:17:18 am »

A large number of overall mix issues are solved with levels and panning, long before you even touch an EQ or other tool.

lyteside · « **Reply #5 on:** January 13, 2016, 04:03:47 am »

As a general rule, I try to get as much as I can out of the mix with volume gain and panning levels before I get to the EQ (unless I'm using EQ for sound design).

Also, panning (or the lack of it) tells a story, just like any other aspect of the instruments, rhythms, etc. The instrument it goes on matters. And there are some awesome efforts out there with mono pads - so cool sounding!

That all being said, I think producers seem to pan way to much these days. It works a lot better if only a small handful of things are panned while the majority lives in flatland. When so many elements are panned, it loses dynamics just like if the mix is too loud/compressed.

I've used this example before, but since its a new forum experience for me, I'll post the example here - Armin van Buuren's Waiting for the Night feat. Fiora. Typically vocals are panned to the center, but in this approach, Fiora's vocals are mixed pretty wide even during the choruses. What's not expected is what Armin and gang do with the lead synth. The synth is wide-panned until you get to the chorus at :43. Then it jumps the center. The result is that the sound of the chorus actually gets larger, not smaller. Fiora's vocals seem to stick out even more (though the effect on them has changed very little).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJ_tpbriGpE

Red X · « **Reply #6 on:** January 13, 2016, 04:32:28 am »

Quote from: lyteside on January 13, 2016, 04:03:47 am

As a general rule, I try to get as much as I can out of the mix with volume gain and panning levels before I get to the EQ (unless I'm using EQ for sound design).

Also, panning (or the lack of it) tells a story, just like any other aspect of the instruments, rhythms, etc. The instrument it goes on matters. And there are some awesome efforts out there with mono pads - so cool sounding!

That all being said, I think producers seem to pan way to much these days. It works a lot better if only a small handful of things are panned while the majority lives in flatland. When so many elements are panned, it loses dynamics just like if the mix is too loud/compressed.

I've used this example before, but since its a new forum experience for me, I'll post the example here - Armin van Buuren's Waiting for the Night feat. Fiora. Typically vocals are panned to the center, but in this approach, Fiora's vocals are mixed pretty wide even during the choruses. What's not expected is what Armin and gang do with the lead synth. The synth is wide-panned until you get to the chorus at :43. Then it jumps the center. The result is that the sound of the chorus actually gets larger, not smaller. Fiora's vocals seem to stick out even more (though the effect on them has changed very little).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJ_tpbriGpE

I'm going to give this a shot! that track is good I tried that idea where my synth was playing mono until the drop to make room for my lead and my lead was so wide when I made it mono it sounded more out there and clear but yea thanks for the comment

Red X · « **Reply #7 on:** January 13, 2016, 04:33:05 am »

Quote from: Kinesthetics on January 13, 2016, 03:17:18 am

A large number of overall mix issues are solved with levels and panning, long before you even touch an EQ or other tool.

Thanks for the advice

Mussar · « **Reply #8 on:** January 13, 2016, 04:37:27 am »

I'm gonna tackle this from the classical mixing engineer working with a recorded band perspective:

Panning is a way to give the listener the impression that they are listening to a live band in front of them, not a pile of waveforms stacked on top of each other. When you go see a band live on stage, are they all standing in marching formation, single file?

Of course not! They're spread out, so that the sound waves of their instruments are not blocked by or overlapping another instrument. Even the drummer's kit is not all directly down the center: the kick drum is near the center, the hat is usually off to the left, the snare is a little to his right, and the toms and cymbals are placed in a panoramic position (more for the drummer than the listener, but hey). The singer? Usually right in the middle, with the drum kit behind them or off to one side.

It's your job to recreate that positioning so when a person closes their eyes, they could visualize where the band members are standing on stage. They can tell the difference in location between a high tom and a low tom. All these little tiny things that individually are barely noticeable, but come together to provide this beautiful sonic picture that helps a song feel complete and polished.

lyteside · « **Reply #9 on:** January 13, 2016, 04:44:53 am »

Quote from: Mussar on January 13, 2016, 04:37:27 am

All these little tiny things that individually are barely noticeable, but come together to provide this beautiful sonic picture that helps a song feel complete and polished.

absolutely. Even a listener that doesn't know much about music or where instruments go in the space provided will still be able to tell if it "sounds" off or correct in that kind of matter. Just intuition under the surface I suppose.

Mussar · « **Reply #10 on:** January 13, 2016, 04:53:42 am »

From what my engineering teacher told me, it's kind of the aural equivalent of the Uncanny Valley effect. We know how it's supposed to sound, because we've grown up hearing it mixed (either from the people physically being in front of us or having a mixing engineer in the venue or at the studio doing it) in the proper way. It's the same reason why dissonant chords make you cringe - your brain is saying "SOMETHING IS DIFFERENT AND I DON'T LIKE IT!"

Al_N · « **Reply #11 on:** January 13, 2016, 05:06:47 am »

Panning is absolutely necessary. There is a common question that I get asked which is: How do you make your track sound wider?

Well, to start - panning. Panning is usually one of the very first thing I do aside from rough mixing. It's finding that perfect balance, and where that effect/synth/drum sample/yada yada fits into the mix.

Keep the things that need to stay center, center. But play with your stereo field for the rest of your instruments, even if you're panning 7L/7R.

manducator · « **Reply #12 on:** January 13, 2016, 09:46:41 am »

Hello RxD,

Especially when you are making a minimal type of music,panning is important.

Try, for instance, putting a delay on hihats and pan the delays around in the mix. it will add excitement and keep listeners interested. Autopanning and pingpong delay are your friends!

Don't just think about static panning (setting the pan pot for the entire mix) but automate things. That way, panning isn't about mixing but it's about being creative.

Author Topic: Is panning necessary? (Read 14179 times)

Red X

Is panning necessary?

kiiskamusic

Re: Is panning necessary?

Red X

Re: Is panning necessary?

kiiskamusic

Re: Is panning necessary?

Kinesthetics

Re: Is panning necessary?

lyteside

Re: Is panning necessary?

Red X

Re: Is panning necessary?

Red X

Re: Is panning necessary?

Mussar

Re: Is panning necessary?

lyteside

Re: Is panning necessary?

Mussar

Re: Is panning necessary?

Al_N

Re: Is panning necessary?

manducator

Re: Is panning necessary?