Author Topic: how do producers know which goes next? intro, middle , drop , break , outro?  (Read 23069 times)

phantascy

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i understand that people reference tracks by listening/draging songs into there d.a.w.s
try to copy it as much as possible.
i know some producers make the melody first than do the rest after.
but my problem is when i create a chord i like.
i have no fucking idea how to start it when its mostly a drop chord.
whats worse i dont know how to start a intro with a match lead or bass to connect with the main chord.
im so tired of people saying you can do whatever you want.
obviously most producers have there own arrangement game plans knowing
if they start with a stab or bass wub with a counter lead or arp.
i need a specific guide book on how to arrange tracks step by steps and why for a particular genre/style.
i know im making it sound complicated but its very hard to make a chord or melody you like and you have no idea to start off with it or use it for a drop.
and especially how can i grab the listeners attention for each 30 seconds before they lose interest in dull transitions.
im so glad mat-zo started this cause he and a few other producers like
(porter,dirtysouth,arty,deniz koyu, madeon,deadmau5,pendelum,steve duda,john dalbach, fedde le grand, audien , laidback luke, axwell )
never really explain how the manage to create methods for each track knowing how it starts to finish.
even if its one riff or loop , i wish there were steps on finding ways to compliment or give it purpose in tracks.
i apologize if i made it sound complicating but i need a step by step guide book explaining why i should start specific instruments or melodies first to last before i mix and master.
it would make it easier for me to complete tracks.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2016, 04:04:29 am by phantascy »

Mussar

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Well, here's the bad news: There's no set way. Sometimes people start with a basic chord progression, sometimes they start with a bassline, sometimes they think of a melody, and sometimes they start building up a drum loop and work on top of that! It's all about what inspires them at the moment.

Here's the good news: Every single song you've ever loved is an open book waiting for you to read. Referencing tracks isn't just listening to them and dragging them into their D.A.W.s, it's about a whole new type of analytical listening. You're no longer a fan, you're a student.  I've attached a little PDF that has a good list of questions to take with you every time you listen to a track from now on. Start answering the questions as you listen to the song over and over. Do you notice any similarities between the tracks? Are there any trends that seem to emerge? Are certain sounds louder than others? What sounds did they think was the MOST important to hear (the sounds that feel like they're on top of everything else)?

The reason why the top-level producers often hesitate to talk about this kind of stuff is because no one wants to hear "It's a lot of work." But don't worry, because there's plenty of resources online to jump start you.

I'd watch this Q&A session with NGHTMRE and this SeamlessR playlist and see if it helps you any. The MOST important thing to remember is that when you're first starting out it is quantity, not necessarily quality, that you're looking for. The only way to truly know what sounds good is to make a lot of stuff that sounds bad, after all. Every time you force yourself to make a song, you've learned something new so that the next time, that part isn't so hard.

Don't give up!

EDIT: Attaching a picture of the PDF so people can see it without having to download
« Last Edit: January 06, 2016, 05:02:03 am by Mussar »

Joseph

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I used to be like you, I couldn't do much without having a guidebook to follow, but now I've figured out what kind of things I want in my songs. It's not always instantaneous, there's a lot of experimentation going on, but I found that listening to different types of music always helps, like REALLY listening to it. I'm not the best at arrangements either, but I found that creating your own song on top of an acapella always helps because you're forced to follow the flow of the vocals. Once you get good at doing that, you can start to make your own arrangements. Every aspect of production is hard, and there are so many different things you need to learn in order to become good at it. Just focus on one aspect at a time, don't be afraid of copying other song's progressions while you're starting off.
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Mussar

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I found that creating your own song on top of an acapella always helps because you're forced to follow the flow of the vocals. Once you get good at doing that, you can start to make your own arrangements.

I've never thought of doing something like that, great idea!

phantascy

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thank you all so much for your advice i will definetely look into it including this website full of knowledgeable producers =)

phantascy

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Well, here's the bad news: There's no set way. Sometimes people start with a basic chord progression, sometimes they start with a bassline, sometimes they think of a melody, and sometimes they start building up a drum loop and work on top of that! It's all about what inspires them at the moment.

Here's the good news: Every single song you've ever loved is an open book waiting for you to read. Referencing tracks isn't just listening to them and dragging them into their D.A.W.s, it's about a whole new type of analytical listening. You're no longer a fan, you're a student.  I've attached a little PDF that has a good list of questions to take with you every time you listen to a track from now on. Start answering the questions as you listen to the song over and over. Do you notice any similarities between the tracks? Are there any trends that seem to emerge? Are certain sounds louder than others? What sounds did they think was the MOST important to hear (the sounds that feel like they're on top of everything else)?

The reason why the top-level producers often hesitate to talk about this kind of stuff is because no one wants to hear "It's a lot of work." But don't worry, because there's plenty of resources online to jump start you.

I'd watch this Q&A session with NGHTMRE and this SeamlessR playlist and see if it helps you any. The MOST important thing to remember is that when you're first starting out it is quantity, not necessarily quality, that you're looking for. The only way to truly know what sounds good is to make a lot of stuff that sounds bad, after all. Every time you force yourself to make a song, you've learned something new so that the next time, that part isn't so hard.

Don't give up!

EDIT: Attaching a picture of the PDF so people can see it without having to download

thanks i wont give up!

phantascy

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I found that creating your own song on top of an acapella always helps because you're forced to follow the flow of the vocals. Once you get good at doing that, you can start to make your own arrangements.

I've never thought of doing something like that, great idea!

yeah your totally right. sometimes thats how i make new melodies trying to recreate the same by matching the tone of there voice with keys or sometimes i use dune with unison cause poly notes makes it easier to slap on midi to other instruments without sounding weird.

Syrenne

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This isn't the most fun method, but you will learn a LOT if you do this.

Take a few songs that you really like and write out what is happening.  For example you might write something like "16 bar intro, hats go whole time, kick comes in at bar 9, blah blah blah."  You can do this for the duration of the tune.  Not only do you have a detailed road map, but you can separate it into larger sections like intro, drop, bridge, etc.  Then you can compare these different song forms to find any commonalities!  You'll be coming up with your own song forms in no time :)
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noahnorrod

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Here's the good news: Every single song you've ever loved is an open book waiting for you to read. Referencing tracks isn't just listening to them and dragging them into their D.A.W.s, it's about a whole new type of analytical listening. You're no longer a fan, you're a student.  I've attached a little PDF that has a good list of questions to take with you every time you listen to a track from now on. Start answering the questions as you listen to the song over and over. Do you notice any similarities between the tracks? Are there any trends that seem to emerge? Are certain sounds louder than others? What sounds did they think was the MOST important to hear (the sounds that feel like they're on top of everything else)?


That PDF is awesome! It's neat, color-coded, and laid out like a flowchart. Some of it is a bit above my expertise level, but I'm fascinated by how comprehensive it is! If you're the one who made it, you did a mighty fine job!
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To be honest, in my case anyway I never EVER plan out what comes next. the ideas just flow and the sections for naturally. I usually just begin projects with simple melodies and progressions and the ideas just evolve and evolve and so do the sections. I feel like forcing yourself and planning sections out can be frustrating and stressful. Just sit there and let your song evolve.