Oh I know how to do it in Serum. I've read the Serum manual I understand all the basics like the mod matrix and stuff. 

What I was trying to say is how do I create movement in an audio sample in ableton? Is there like a more complex volume envelope in the ableton sampler??

Thanks for your reply though.

If you want "Weird Trap Synths", you should stop thinking about things in terms of the synthesizer you're using, but rather the method of resampling you are using.

Some of these basses sound like FM8 patches that have been resampled and either cut up or played in a sampler, and your typical trap lead comes from taking a vocal, putting it into Simpler/Sampler/ESX24/Fruity Sampler/Whatever and messing with it. Remember that a lot of these songs are pre-Serum, so you don't always want to think about it in a post-Serum mindset.

Ok thats super interesting. I have never thought of it like that at all. I guess I assume they use synthesizers to make the sounds. I am familiar with resampling but what do you mean resampling and messing with it? Should I make a sound in serum, sample it and then mess with it somehow? What things could I do to the resampled synth? Obviously you would put audio effects on it but in what way?

Thanks for the resources dude I'm definitely going to check them out.

I said I was going to go back and revisit the fundamentals of sound design and synthesis and I was reading articles and watching videos and I already knew it all. Like I was already familiar with all the topics they covered.

I feel like I have all this theoretical knowledge of making music, Like I know all about how to eq things and I know all about digital audio like sample rates and bit depth. I also know the physics behind sound (as I used to study physics and this was a topic) and I know all about synthesis like FM synthesis, subtractive, I know signal path and routing and stuff, I know what wavetables are, I know filters, I'm very familiar with modulation and LFO stuff.

I know all this stuff and somehow in my mind I'm just pushing myself to make great music. I know making music is hard and that it takes a long time but I am pretty hard on myself and I do push myself really hard. It worked for DJ'ing, I used to work hard on making perfect mixes everyday and soon it just became like normal for every transition to be as smooth as possible and it payed off. I played my first ever house party the other night, I had never Dj'd in front of anyone for longer than like 2 minutes and everyone at the party loved me.

I'm not trying to talk myself up here I'm just trying to explain to you guys how I work and what my mind is expecting me to do when I produce music.

One of my biggest inspirations is Diplo, he so dynamic with he own project and Major Lazer and Jack U. Thats some of the music I love. That type of music has musical integrity and sounds good but at the same time your able to dance to it  and play it at festivals and stuff. Thats kind of what I want to make.

I'm very familiar with those basic wavetables but I hardly use them. I like weird sounds that sound unique but sound good at the same time. I find it very hard to be able to make weird lead sounds with the basic waveforms. If you listen to some Major Lazer and Jack U songs the lead sounds sound very unique, I wouldn't know what they used to make those synths (except the vocal chops I can understand how they do that) but thats what I'm aiming for.

Look I really am having trouble identifying my problem because in my mind I really shouldn't have a problem. So many producers are having fun making good music and it seems like they haven't gone through the struggles I've had. Don't get me wrong they probably have had issues but I've literally had issues with like every facet of music production from sound design to creative issues to mastering and mixdowns.

Music production is the hardest thing I have ever done, sometimes I've been so frustrated that I just want to take a break from it but then all I do is think about it ahah and Im back in ableton within 5 minutes.

Thanks for reading all my posts on here you guys, really appreciate you guys helping me out and hopefully I'll sort this out and make great music one day.

 

Sorry for the late reply, I've just DJ'd my first house party so I was preparing for that.

I've been studying the orchestral frequency charts and noticed that none of the instruments go above like 16 KHz and my leads have a lot of content above 16 KHz which is the zzzzz or shhhh sound I'm getting on my leads. Should I cut this out and kind of band pass the lead?

When you mean frequency range do you mean that lead sounds have a large range of frequencies? So leads should have frequency content in the low mids, high mids and the highs?

Thanks for the sound design tips, I'm definitely going to experiment with that and go in other directions.

Ok so if I cut out some frequencies I need to make up those frequencies with another layer, because that will allow the synth to sound full and be characterised as a lead synth. Right?

I'm definitely going to take a look at the frequency spectrum and pay close attention to the timbre of the synth.

Ok I'm definitely going to research some recording techniques because this is knowledge I don't have and it seems vital to making music. Do you know of any good places to learn some recording techniques. Seems a bit broad by describing it as recording techniques. I've heard of recording in the context of producing but I've never fully understood what it referred to. Obviously I know you can record audio like resampling synths and recording vocals from a mic. Is that all it is? This is a very noob question aha.

Thanks for the help man.

I'm trying to improve my music and I've been listening to my music trying to figure out what ti improve. I've always struggled with making the drop or chorus of a song. I produce like trap electronic music, basically just electronic music at like 70-80 BPM.

To me an electronic drop consists of a sub bass, Drums and a lead synth (or synths). I guess my drums and sub bass are ok, they are not perfect but only practise will improve that. I understand how to get better at drum programming. But that lead synth. I can't wrap my head around how to make a good interesting lead synth.

I don't struggle with the other synths. Usually in the rest of the song I have multiple synths together like a might have a pluck then add some pads to give it some volume and fullness. Then I might add a melody in with a different kind of synth. I can do this well and I'm happy with the way it sounds as well.

I know you can layer a lead synth. So just layering synths like I do with the rest of the song won't work because then it wouldn't sound like a drop it would just sound like the rest of the song with a dancy drum beat and sub bass.

I enjoy sound design when its not frustrating like it is with lead synths. I have taken my time to learn what every single button and knob does in Serum. I have actually practised a lot of sound design. I know how to use both NI Massive and Serum to make sounds. But the one kind of sound I just can't make is lead synths.

I've tried googling, youtubing and researching the hell out of what a lead synth is and I've found nothing really. I've asked questions on here about how to make a lead synth but I still find myself in the same situation.

I listen to music that inspires me and I listen to the lead synth in the drop and I just cant tell how the hell they did that, how did they make it. I'm specifically talking about the high end of a synth.

The high end of my synths sound like shit. They are always too harsh, too sharp and too gritty. They have that kind of zzzzzzzzz sound aha. So I add some voices and detune it and then it sounds like white noise and it doesn't sound good. A classic example of what I'm talking about is like a saw wave. A saw wave by itself is super harsh (because it has all those upper harmonics). If you add like 8 voices to that and detune them, the top end sounds like just white noise or some kind of shhhhhhh.

The same thing happens when I use other wavetables and it just doesn't sound good. I just don't understand how people do it. The dont low pass the synth because then it takes the top end away and then it doesn't sound as bright and full. It's very frustrating I just dont understand.

Big up to the Arktopolis.


I had those same frustrations that you're currently experiencing. I've eventually given up on the boundaries that are set by categorization of electronic music when it comes to writing music.

When i was first starting out, i would tend to  notice how things work and get feedback and try to change it up on my next tune and continue to get feedback. I've also done research to supplement a better understanding of the components i use through out my process when creating and mixing a song to completion.

You quite honestly, may need to set aside some time and gather what it is you've actually learned and manifest itself in some way. By writing down the functions of the daw that you use (in a sense writing your own manual, that makes sense to you) and/or writing down your process of how you've obtained the sound you tend to like.

I am not to sure how you work, but i tend to remember things better if i spend time writing or typing it out and then saving the data in some form or fashion for me to refer back to if i ever need a reference point.

Quite honestly, you don't need to know when you need a pluck synth, because you can seriously make ANY song with out any type of pluck synth what so ever. I mean, you can make a music just by recording farts. You have the option of tuning it to a musical key or retaining the flatulent key it occurs in naturally.


You're binding yourself to self imposed restraints due to a mindset that might have not been broken, in order to fully realize your creative potential. But that perspective and understanding, with in the artist and all artist, takes time to develop and understand.


If what you say is true, and you have an understanding of the ideas and concepts that are applicable in modern tastes, then you're at a point where you need to push over the edge to get to the next phase of Doing and Learning.

You've created a tool box, but don't understand how to use the tools.

You also might need a break for your brain to catch up to what you have done, and maybe consider the future a little bit.

In the last statement, calls for changing your "reference point" of how you produce and what your body of knowledge is when you produce. If the last statement is true, through rhetorical question, then you might need to consider organizing every thing you've done in terms of your production PROCESS, until where you are currently at.



TL;DR-allow your self to catch up to yourself. You're about to break the boundary of self imposed limitations, once you get over this, you shouldn't have this sort of question ever enter your mind again, aside from a creative context of the song. But the fundamentals of understanding the tools, should be eliminated in terms of understanding what should happen in context of the tool and the song.



you're dealing with multiple variables now, it gets harder, but once the foundation has been set and understood, keep focus on the fundamentals you've established for yourself and keep plodding away.


EDIT: i've started to save my patches of synthesizers (as well as entire racks [including effect chains]) so that i can recall and manipulate later.

After further investigation into your problem, it seems like you have a solid understanding of how to use the tool but you can't quite seem to make sense of the tool in the context of various forms of instrumentation of the music. You also don't seem to have confidence in how you want your sounds to be, which leads into your frustration of not knowing what music to make or what to put into your music (also, the lack of understanding of the components of a song to make the experimental music worth while).

You shouldn't have to struggle like this, but you will need to struggle like this if you want to get better.

Never think that you aught to be at a point that you're not ready for. Understanding your self right now, is important to being where you want to be and at the skill level you want to be, in the future.

So, my bit about self imposed limitations, with respect to time and therefore experience, remain.

Heavily consider all of the resources you have and know, collect them, analyze your collection, and move forward based on what you have filtered (likes, dislikes of techniques and understanding).

Whoa, felt like I was learning about myself whilst reading that.

I too like writing things down to refer back to later to consolidate my knowledge, I do it with school work a lot but I haven't been with music production. I definitely will start taking notes, which I already have been on music theory.

I'm also not quite sure how I work either. I don't really know how I start it all just spontaneously happens. Now that I think of it I do start off with a chord progression and a synth patch but that is starting to bore me and I don't like how it sounds.

You're binding yourself to self imposed restraints due to a mindset that might have not been broken, in order to fully realize your creative potential.

So fuck rules and do what you want but don't fuck music theory I guess.

After further investigation into your problem, it seems like you have a solid understanding of how to use the tool but you can't quite seem to make sense of the tool in the context of various forms of instrumentation of the music. You also don't seem to have confidence in how you want your sounds to be, which leads into your frustration of not knowing what music to make or what to put into your music (also, the lack of understanding of the components of a song to make the experimental music worth while).

I think this may be one of my problems. I know what the tools do but I don't know how to use them and when. It's kind of like I know what a hammer and a screw driver do but I don't know which one to use and when to use them when building something. How do I learn this? Just experiment?

Also I do believe I have a lack of understanding of the components of a song. I'm going to google this after writing this but does anybody have any good info or resource on a subject like this?

I also don't really know who I am nor do I like who I am which I think is impacting my creative work because I don't know what I want.

Thank you so much for this long post, it's a bit of a relief to know I'm not the only one who has dealt with this.