Author Topic: Send vs Insert  (Read 2621 times)

wildcat

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Send vs Insert
« on: August 25, 2016, 08:45:36 pm »
I know it's best to send EVERYTHING to your room reverb to "glue" all elements together.

BUT

If i want a sound to be drowned in verb, I struggle with understanding if i should send more of the element to the room OR adding an insert to it to effect the sound itself.

Thoughts?
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MMIC

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Re: Send vs Insert
« Reply #1 on: August 25, 2016, 09:10:04 pm »
Well, if you aren't able to get the "drowned" effect you're looking for despite sending all of the element to your reverb, then I think you have no choice but to use an Insert.

Mussar

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Re: Send vs Insert
« Reply #2 on: August 25, 2016, 09:50:34 pm »
What you're looking at is the difference between reverb as a mixing tool, and reverb as a sound design tool.

Using reverb on a send "glues" your instrumentation together because there is a sonic space in which all of your sounds share a similar frequency response that the ears have been trained to expect through generations of instincts in your DNA combined with all of your personal experience hearing things in the real world (all of which have reverb as part of their sound). By combining reverb, panning, and volume you place all of your sounds within a 3D space so that they don't overlap one another. This is mixing reverb.

Using reverb as an effect insert creates a sensation that the object being affected is existing within its own space, further away from you as a listener and possibly even separate from the other instruments in the song. The reverb is an intrinsic part of what makes up that sounds characteristics, rather than just acting as a "living quarters" for that sound. This is sound design reverb.

If you wanted to attain the far away nature of the sound design reverb while maintaining the consistent space of your song, you could do one of two things -

  • Duplicate the reverb effect from your send onto the sound, and play with the wet/dry to get it sounding the way you want.
  • Enable Pre-Fader sends, so that the volume of the signal sent to the reverb is independent of the volume that the fader is set to.

wildcat

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Re: Send vs Insert
« Reply #3 on: August 25, 2016, 11:25:45 pm »

    • Enable Pre-Fader sends, so that the volume of the signal sent to the reverb is independent of the volume that the fader is set to.

    Mussar, that makes so much sense, you explained it really nice and simply. I think another option I've heard if have another send but with a much more dramatic reverb. Now the question is when would one send two instruments or + to that dramatic send to live in the same space vs applying inserts. I guess the question is, when should instruments live in the same send VS applying inserts. I realize this is a matter of taste ultimately, but still interested to get your thoughts on that.

    Also - What do you mean by what I quoted, "Enable Pre-Fader sends". How do you enable that typically and why would that be important? When would someone want reverb for an instrument that isn't quite loud enough yet.

    Thanks for your input!
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    Marrow Machines

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    Re: Send vs Insert
    « Reply #4 on: August 26, 2016, 12:35:39 am »
    You can have multiple instances of reverb with many different points.

    They key, is to understand how to make all of it sound cohesive to the frame of reference that you're looking for.


    You can make a reverb bus to a snare, that's being routed to the snare group, then take that snare group and have it routed to the main reverb buss channel for your mix.


    Get creative with your routing, once you know the basics in the signal chain, and you can get some pretty interesting results. Just contain them with respect to the overall picture.
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    Mussar

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    Re: Send vs Insert
    « Reply #5 on: August 26, 2016, 02:28:49 pm »
    You're right that it's essentially arbitrary.

    I know some globally touring producers who just put reverb as an insert on each channel they want to have reverb, changing the parameters for each - and it still sounds good. I know people who have a setup similar to what you're talking about - one short reverb and one long reverb, and you send your instruments to one or the other (though you wouldn't necessarily want to have one instrument sent to two reverbs at the same time just for the sake of clarity, but that doesn't mean you're forbidden from doing it and it might sound good!) and change where you're sending when you want things to have the SUPER LONG REVERB TAIL. As long as it sounds good and not just different, you can do whatever you want!

    And with regards to pre-farder sends, that's an option most DAWS have as either a global option or something that is enabled on an individual send. For example, in Ableton you would go to the bottom half of the master channel in Session view and click the icon that says "Post" to change them to "Pre", which affects anything sent to that return channel. In Logic, you'd just route your track to whatever bus has your reverb on it, then click and hold on the send and select "Pre Fader", which would only affect that one channel and nothing else sent to that bus.

    As far as why would that be important? One example would be for the reason you mentioned in the OP - when we hear more of a reverbed signal than we do of the source sound, we perceive that sound as being far away and "washed in reverb". Instead of a vocal sounding like it's right in front of you and you're inside a giant stadium, you can have it sound like the vocalist is shouting from the stands. Another good example comes to us from the world of moving pictures - if you had a person wearing hard-heeled or high-heeled shoes walking off camera down some long hallway with tile flooring, you could lower the volume of the channel without lowering the volume of the send to have the footsteps fade off into this very reverberant place where the echoes would continue well after the source sound was far out of sight.