Author Topic: Peaks Increase When Removing Sub-bass  (Read 9365 times)

Lydian

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Peaks Increase When Removing Sub-bass
« on: April 10, 2016, 11:58:09 am »
Just for an experiment I set a kick to -0.0 db and slapped an EQ on it. I removed the 40hz frequencies and I expected the peaks to get lower. Instead, the kick was now hitting at +1.1db.

What gives? Doesn't removing the sub bass INCREASE head room. Not reduce it?
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FarleyCZ

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Re: Peaks Increase When Removing Sub-bass
« Reply #1 on: April 10, 2016, 12:23:08 pm »
How did you set your Q on that lowcut?
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Lydian

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Re: Peaks Increase When Removing Sub-bass
« Reply #2 on: April 10, 2016, 04:17:18 pm »
Just like this

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Wontolla

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Re: Peaks Increase When Removing Sub-bass
« Reply #3 on: April 10, 2016, 04:30:01 pm »
If it was compressed, an EQ might shift harmonics out of phase with each other, "undoing" the compression.

FarleyCZ

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Re: Peaks Increase When Removing Sub-bass
« Reply #4 on: April 10, 2016, 05:55:34 pm »
...or the subbass might have been way louder than highend peak, so when you got it away, the peak went throught the compressor un-attenuated causing a loud transient. If it was compressed, definitely try the experiment again without compression.
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Axis

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Re: Peaks Increase When Removing Sub-bass
« Reply #5 on: April 10, 2016, 07:24:52 pm »
That's how a standard (non-linear phase) EQ works.  It shifts phases around the cutoff frequency and this results in a DC offset.  Try switching to linear phase and see what happens.

Lydian

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Re: Peaks Increase When Removing Sub-bass
« Reply #6 on: April 10, 2016, 07:40:18 pm »
Funny because I was JUST about to mention this.

I retested the theory again this time with a linear phase EQ and instead of going from -0.0db to +1.1db it stood at -0.0db. Still a bit weird because naturally I would think that removing frequencies (especially the sub-bass) would give me more headroom. However there wasn't any change in headroom using the linear phase EQ.

I must also mention that there was no compressor on the kick. Just Logic's EQ and later for testing I used a linear phase EQ.

I'm interested in what this means for my mixing process. Maybe I'll start using linear phase EQ's more often for low cutting. I also don't know what DC offset is so I'll read up some more on that.

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manducator

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Re: Peaks Increase When Removing Sub-bass
« Reply #7 on: April 11, 2016, 05:29:07 am »
Maybe I'll start using linear phase EQ's more often for low cutting.

Linear eq isn't the answer to everything. Watch this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efKabAQQsPQ

@ around 1:20 you can hear the difference between minimum phase and linear phase cutting on a kick. The linaer phase cuts off the transient and it sounds worse than minimum phase.

Axis

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Re: Peaks Increase When Removing Sub-bass
« Reply #8 on: April 11, 2016, 05:35:07 pm »
I wasn't suggesting that linear phase EQ is the answer to everything, it just illustrates how different types of EQ work.  Also, "more headroom" doesn't necessarily mean "lower peaks".  It just means that you can add more stuff to it and it will not sound like crap.  You'll still have peaks, but there will be fewer of them, and you'll be able to control them using a limiter or a saturator.  For example, if you mix two sounds with overlapping sub-bass contents, the resulting peaks will be huge, and there may also be phase cancellations.  If you cut the sub on one of the sounds, the result will be much more controllable.  As I mentioned, "regular" EQ may create a DC offset, but if you have other plugins further down the processing chain, it probably does not matter.  Linear phase EQ may work better for cutting the sub but it does smear transients, so there is no universal rule.  I think "use your ears" is the best piece of advice that can be give here.

manducator

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Re: Peaks Increase When Removing Sub-bass
« Reply #9 on: April 13, 2016, 06:47:21 am »
I wasn't suggesting that linear phase EQ is the answer to everything

You weren't indeed.

Linear and non-linear have their own place in mixing and mastering. One isn't better than the other.