Author Topic: Fletcher-Munson Curve - IMPORTANT  (Read 7101 times)

TheAGNO3

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Fletcher-Munson Curve - IMPORTANT
« on: January 13, 2016, 10:03:28 pm »
Hey everyone, this is an interesting topic, and one that I think is super important to consider when producing.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fletcher%E2%80%93Munson_curves

Some Dude

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Re: Fletcher-Munson Curve - IMPORTANT
« Reply #1 on: January 13, 2016, 10:26:34 pm »
always mix at low levels! if your mix sounds good low it will most likely sound good loud. if your mix sounds good loud theres a lot less chance it will sound good low

Dichotomy

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Re: Fletcher-Munson Curve - IMPORTANT
« Reply #2 on: January 14, 2016, 12:07:32 am »
There's a member of this forum (deathy) who is a "gray" noise evangelist.

Here are some of deathy's interesting posts:
Re: Perceived Loudness - a suggestion
Re: Mixing quick tip with Pink Noise - his method of producing "gray" noise

I would be remiss if I didn't include his disclaimer:
I admit that I am not completely sold on using it all the time anyway, for the same reasons as what I detailed earlier about following the curve perfectly not being interesting enough to me.

My thoughts:
The Fletcher-Munson Curves (1933) have been considered inaccurate (since 1957) and revised into ISO 226 (1987).... and again in (2003). There are reports that indicate these ELCs still do not accurately articulate the concept they purport (http://dx.doi.org/10.4236/oja.2012.24016).

You'll notice (on ISO's site) they indicate some points which (to me) reduce the applicability of this in production. ..."the source of sound is directly in front of the listener; the sound signals are pure tones; the sound pressure level is measured at the position where the centre of the listener's head would be, but in the absence of the listener; listening is binaural; the listeners are otologically normal persons in the age range from 18 years to 25 years inclusive."

It's not that the spec doesn't apply at all to any real circumstance (this is a laboratory finding, not a scientific theory or law)... the thing that irks me is that it's based on population sampling (asking people) and tested in a fabricated scenario with an overly reduced sample. But, say it is accurate for a satisfyingly large amount random people, it is still dependent on listening volume.

That is to say, when your listener changes the volume (what!?), or is in an environment where volume changes by location (due to speaker placement, occlusion dampening, etc... like a club or car), this consideration is undone. Also, quite a few people enjoy the freedom of EQing music for their listening pleasure... but only some do it manually. Many rely on consumer electronics manufacturers to perform this for them. You've undoubtedly heard of this... SRS WOW, ST Dynamic Bass, SRS TruBass, Beats by Dre, the Loudness feature in many car-stereos, and other audio processing (bass mangling) features of sound systems. Producing music with this processing "baked-in" doesn't make sense to me, as in these situations it would be doubled. The likelihood of your music being enjoyed without distortion and fatigue is severely diminished.

I don't consider the manner of audio reproduction as part of my art; I don't personally manufacture any headphones, speakers, cables, subwoofers, or hardware DSPs. For me, the art is the message not the medium. Not to say I balance levels on a whim. I attempt to have levels in my music in a "safe zone" where listeners naturally expect them to be... so they can leave their bass boost on, or not immediately reach for the volume / EQ knob when my music plays. Pink noise accomplishes this well for me.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2016, 12:11:08 am by Dichotomy »

Schematic

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Re: Fletcher-Munson Curve - IMPORTANT
« Reply #3 on: January 14, 2016, 12:36:57 am »
always mix at low levels! if your mix sounds good low it will most likely sound good loud. if your mix sounds good loud theres a lot less chance it will sound good low

Mixing at low levels is good as a reference, it's a great way to make sure your 'energy' in the mix is not just coming from having the speakers cranked up, but I wouldn't recommend making the bulk of your critical decisions at a low level.

Roughly 85dBSPL c-weighted is where human hearing perceives the flattest response, but it's a bit loud to work at that level all day. I find the sweet spot for me is around 75-80dB, and being that it's still in that relatively flat range it translates well.
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FarleyCZ

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Re: Fletcher-Munson Curve - IMPORTANT
« Reply #4 on: January 14, 2016, 12:42:56 am »
This is the key, how to make all those "big" tracks SPUER LOUD IT BLOWS YOUR HEAD OFF... Ear is really sensitive around 5k (visible in those curves), so people use it as weapon in loudness wars and boost this area while mixing or mastering.

...but it's also the explanation, why this super loud music sucks. Turn off that damn mastering chain and you have completely different song.
"Earth is round right? Look at it from right angle and you'll be always on top of the world."
...but don't overdo it, because that's called being a d***k.

deathy

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Re: Fletcher-Munson Curve - IMPORTANT
« Reply #5 on: January 14, 2016, 01:23:52 am »
Dichotomy does a fantastic job IMO of capturing why this is something to know about, but not something to use in your final output.
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