Author Topic: "Finished Tracks" Section Sucks rn  (Read 13631 times)

sleepy

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"Finished Tracks" Section Sucks rn
« on: January 09, 2016, 08:29:00 am »
I already PM'd ninth parallel about this, but I wanna know what you guys think.

Right now the Finished Tracks and WIP sections have the most posts, but least amount of replies. It's pretty much just a bunch of people posting their tracks and waiting for replies. Not super conducive to discussion. Why don't we update the description here to make it so that every person who posts a track has to leave feedback for 2 or 3 others? That way the board doesn't get all saturated with dead posts, and people have an incentive to leave feedback. The person posting the track would link to their feedback as proof on their own post. Posts that don't get deleted. The r/edmproduction feedback threads on Reddit kinda work this way and the outcome is mostly positive.

I think it's a simple fix, as the forum layout stays the same. All that changes is the description on the introduction to that board.
I've seen the same things popping up frequently, so I've decided to update this post to provide a more thorough outline of what I'm suggesting:

Things wrong with the "Finished Tracks" and "WIPs" sections:

  • More people posting tracks for feedback than people posting feedback
  • Therefore, many posts with very little if any responses
  • People posting tracks for review without contributing anywhere else in the forum (post count <10)
  • Some feedback that people leave isn't exactly relevant to the needs of the person posting (e.g. getting feedback for mixing when you're really looking for advice on your sound design or composition)
  • Some feedback isn't of very good quality (e.g. "sick track! I love that snare at 0:30!"), often because other people don't know exactly what to listen for or what to leave feedback on

What I'm suggesting
  • People post feedback to at least 2 tracks before posting their own
  • People link to said feedback on their own tracks
  • On their post, people specify what they would like to receive feedback on
  • The stickies on the "Finished Tracks" and "WIPs" sections be updated with these rules.
  • No one leave feedback to those who don't follow the rules, and maybe report them to the mods so their posts get deleted

Why this could work:
  • Would greatly reduce spam
  • Would increase amount of feedback
  • Could potentially increase quality of feedback

We've already established that there are more people posting music than feedback. We've also established that some people leave crappy feedback. If there are two feedback posts for every song post, then we'd have double the amount feedback than tracks in the section. That's a good thing.

Also, if people are required to leave feedback before asking for feedback, then we'd get way less one-timers who come to the forum to post their track and then leave. They don't contribute anything, and I think it's fair they don't receive feedback.

Now, a person posting a track could just leave shitty feedback on two tracks or not all and just claim they did, but the fact that they're required to link back to this feedback in a way prevents this. I think it makes sense to think that if you're going to ask for reviews and show the reviews you've left, you'd want to be linking to the kind of reviews you'd want to be getting. Kinda like how presenting your resume for getting a good job doesn't require you showing just that you have done something, but that you did that something and you did it well. It's not something I can say for certain, but I think it's a fair assumption.

Another issue is not knowing what to leave feedback on. There are so many qualities of a track to comment on, leaving feedback might be discouraging because of this. Having the person posting a track specify what they want to receive feedback on makes it a lot easier to leave good feedback. If a person wants feedback on their sound design and says so, then you know what to look out for. This doesn't necessarily mean that you could only leave feedback on their sound design, any feedback helps. It's just a whole lot easier to leave good feedback when you know what to look for.

Some other things that have come up:

Point Systems
I maintain that point systems are a bad idea. If something is automated it can be easily abused. For example, if we need 3 points to post a track of our own and get a point for every feedback post we make on that section, then we could easily rack up as many points as we want by leaving a bunch of "sick drop bro" types of feedback, that don't really contribute anything. Like I said before, having to link back to the feedback you left may encourage better feedback.

Also, I think that if we want to encourage the idea of community and mutual helpfulness that this forum was based on, then we should rely more on the community to uphold its values rather some fancy coding, no? That's why I'm trying my best to base to this suggestion around everyone helping each other and not a cold, automated system that can be easily abused.

But I don't know a whole lot about music or its technicalities, how can I leave good feedback?
I mentioned before that you don't have to stick to what the person is asking for when leaving feedback (though it helps). I've also said that:

In the last track I posted I asked the forum to get feedback on my sound design and arrangement, as well as how the track made them feel. If you don't have whole lot of experience with music, then at the very least you're a human with emotions. Emotional feedback is probably just as important as any technical feedback. As long as you're sincere and openly show that you're trying to give quality feedback, I don't think there should be a problem.

Hopefully I've explained myself thoroughly enough. I acknowledge that this system isn't perfect, but so far it's the best I've seen. I encourage criticism, but if you're going to say that something's bad, don't just leave it at that. Provide an alternative and explain why it's better. You're not contributing by just saying "oh that wouldn't work" and leaving it at that.

Here's an example of what an ideal post would look like.

Thanks :P
« Last Edit: January 18, 2016, 06:02:18 am by sleepy »

Dan Samurai

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Re: "Finished Tracks" Section Sucks rn
« Reply #1 on: January 09, 2016, 08:34:39 am »
Yeah I agree, it does suck at this moment. There has to be a way to enforce the feedback for feedback deal. To be able to post one feedback post, it should require you to leave feedback on at least 3 others somehow.

sleepy

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Re: "Finished Tracks" Section Sucks rn
« Reply #2 on: January 09, 2016, 08:41:31 am »
That's why you'd have to link to the feedback you've left on others' songs  :D. People who don't just wouldn't get anyone leaving them any feedback, and eventually get deleted. I think that's fair right?

Joseph

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Re: "Finished Tracks" Section Sucks rn
« Reply #3 on: January 09, 2016, 08:42:05 am »
Maybe we could have something like
"Feedback Given: #" under Honors
It would give people another reason to give constructive criticism
If you really want to get serious about it, there could be mods just for that section who give out the points so people can't just write one word and get a point 
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Szub!

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Re: "Finished Tracks" Section Sucks rn
« Reply #4 on: January 09, 2016, 02:46:37 pm »
i agree with you guys, it's becoming a bit one-sided.

i think it would be great if they could do some kind of pop-up window with 2-3 tracks which got few replys/views. and it would olny dissappear if you leave a comment on it or something like that. so in that case you would be "forced" to give feedback to be able to get one. :)
I believe that everyone deserves a listen, even if you've been producing for 5 yrs or you've just started it yesterday!

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JamesSweeneyy

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Re: "Finished Tracks" Section Sucks rn
« Reply #5 on: January 09, 2016, 02:58:54 pm »
i agree with you guys, it's becoming a bit one-sided.

i think it would be great if they could do some kind of pop-up window with 2-3 tracks which got few replys/views. and it would olny dissappear if you leave a comment on it or something like that. so in that case you would be "forced" to give feedback to be able to get one. :)

nothing stops half arsed feedback though... 'yeah, i like 0:30, really cool track man!'

Babasmas

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Re: "Finished Tracks" Section Sucks rn
« Reply #6 on: January 09, 2016, 03:05:05 pm »
i agree with you guys, it's becoming a bit one-sided.

i think it would be great if they could do some kind of pop-up window with 2-3 tracks which got few replys/views. and it would olny dissappear if you leave a comment on it or something like that. so in that case you would be "forced" to give feedback to be able to get one. :)

nothing stops half arsed feedback though... 'yeah, i like 0:30, really cool track man!'
yeah, true. It is really hard to leave feedback. But need to try your best. Everything you notice, that bothers you tell it. Even the dude doesn't like you comment. Honest answer are the best. Be an ass, some people need it to move on.

Szub!

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Re: "Finished Tracks" Section Sucks rn
« Reply #7 on: January 09, 2016, 03:14:11 pm »
i agree with you guys, it's becoming a bit one-sided.

i think it would be great if they could do some kind of pop-up window with 2-3 tracks which got few replys/views. and it would olny dissappear if you leave a comment on it or something like that. so in that case you would be "forced" to give feedback to be able to get one. :)

nothing stops half arsed feedback though... 'yeah, i like 0:30, really cool track man!'
yeah, true. It is really hard to leave feedback. But need to try your best. Everything you notice, that bothers you tell it. Even the dude doesn't like you comment. Honest answer are the best. Be an ass, some people need it to move on.

yeah i know it's hard, i'm not a good producer therefore i can't really give a decent feedback. i always try to write something even it's just a 'nice track' but that shows that i took my time to take a listen. sometimes a few good words could mean a lot..   ;) :D
I believe that everyone deserves a listen, even if you've been producing for 5 yrs or you've just started it yesterday!

https://soundcloud.com/iamszub

BorderCity

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Re: "Finished Tracks" Section Sucks rn
« Reply #8 on: January 09, 2016, 03:31:32 pm »
Well said if you want feedback you should give feedback.

Perhaps like a points system, where you give feedback and get points, and then to receive feedback you "spend" those points? Something along those lines :)

MEDMAN

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Re: "Finished Tracks" Section Sucks rn
« Reply #9 on: January 09, 2016, 05:15:10 pm »
Yeah makes sense, all forums that I've participated in my 7 years of producing, the session of feedback in track is the same, no one gives feedback, constructive critics, but wants that everybody pays attention to your tracks, this system that the lazy users do that kills the foruns always  :-\

404indirect

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Re: "Finished Tracks" Section Sucks rn
« Reply #10 on: January 09, 2016, 05:28:24 pm »

nothing stops half arsed feedback though... 'yeah, i like 0:30, really cool track man!'

Its all half arsed feedback (and it will continue to be so) because most of the people do not know what they are supposed to be listening for. Most people here have consumer taste in music and no deep understanding of music production and only make music hoping to be the next Tiesto.
Jus' Sayin'  :-\
Imagine my surprise when I found out "restraining order" did not mean she wanted me to tie her up.

iamimago

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Re: "Finished Tracks" Section Sucks rn
« Reply #11 on: January 09, 2016, 05:39:07 pm »
The difference with this site and many others is how easy it is to view a persons posts.

So, IMO, there should be a rule in the sticky which states what OP said (that one has to post feedback at least 3 times) in order to post a track themselves and if it's not followed the person gets timed out and or gets restricted access to creating threads.

And to ease the burden on the mods a simple "report user: not giving feedback" thing could be implemented.

This solution requires like... 2 sentences in the sticky and minimum amount of work from the users and mods, but will yield good results
I would write something here, but I'm too lazy to do so

UsernamesGiveMeAnxiety

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Re: "Finished Tracks" Section Sucks rn
« Reply #12 on: January 09, 2016, 05:43:35 pm »

nothing stops half arsed feedback though... 'yeah, i like 0:30, really cool track man!'

Its all half arsed feedback (and it will continue to be so) because most of the people do not know what they are supposed to be listening for. Most people here have consumer taste in music and no deep understanding of music production and only make music hoping to be the next Tiesto.
Jus' Sayin'  :-\

Thats a little harsh but probably true.

I definitely think the current system is flawed. For people who are really new at producing, I feel like I can't really give helpful feedback. The thing that you learn the most from at that stage is just making another track.

cat

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Re: "Finished Tracks" Section Sucks rn
« Reply #13 on: January 09, 2016, 05:44:35 pm »
i think there should be some requirements and conditions you need to meet before you are able to submit your own music, such as a minimum post count

wayfinder

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Re: "Finished Tracks" Section Sucks rn
« Reply #14 on: January 09, 2016, 06:08:54 pm »
I definitely think the current system is flawed. For people who are really new at producing, I feel like I can't really give helpful feedback. The thing that you learn the most from at that stage is just making another track.

That's something that you can tell them! :) They may not know.

(also, your user name is overlapping the posts, so meta)