Author Topic: [Ql Creating (logical) melodies  (Read 16885 times)

Kareem

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[Ql Creating (logical) melodies
« on: January 10, 2016, 12:21:43 am »
Hi

I'm currently stuck on making melodies. I manage to make nice sounding chord progressions, but my melodies fail. I am able to make melodies but all of them sound uninteresting and unlogical

Some people advise to start with your bass and drums. This way you can build a certain groove and adapt a melody to it.
However some of my inspiring songs are very simple in that area (sidechained root notes, rides on the kick, off-beat clap).

I'm curious what workflow you all have it comes to this!

Cheers!
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Syne

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Re: [Ql Creating (logical) melodies
« Reply #1 on: January 10, 2016, 01:22:50 am »
Personally, I work on chords first and then make a melody based off of it. Earlier I had a problem similar to yours but I feel that I"m getting better at developing intersting meleodies now. If you send me one of your songs maybe I can try to help you out with the approach?

Wontolla

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Re: [Ql Creating (logical) melodies
« Reply #2 on: January 10, 2016, 02:12:50 am »
The biggest thing for melodies is PHRASING. Break your melodies up into phrases, short sections that make up a longer line. The breaks between phrases are where you would take a breath, if you were singing them.

Joseph

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Re: [Ql Creating (logical) melodies
« Reply #3 on: January 10, 2016, 04:09:01 am »
Hi

I'm currently stuck on making melodies. I manage to make nice sounding chord progressions, but my melodies fail. I am able to make melodies but all of them sound uninteresting and unlogical

Some people advise to start with your bass and drums. This way you can build a certain groove and adapt a melody to it.
However some of my inspiring songs are very simple in that area (sidechained root notes, rides on the kick, off-beat clap).

I'm curious what workflow you all have it comes to this!

Cheers!

Writing a good melody is hard, and it's mostly just trial and error until you get something you like. One thing you can do is start with the rhythm of the melody and then move on to just moving notes up and down until you find something you like.
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Kaivaan

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Re: [Ql Creating (logical) melodies
« Reply #4 on: January 10, 2016, 05:35:39 am »
just let it come naturally, and make sure it complements the chords

most of the time for me humming/singing random nonsense with the chords finds a melody hahaha



Wontolla

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Re: [Ql Creating (logical) melodies
« Reply #5 on: January 10, 2016, 05:59:52 am »

Kareem

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Re: [Ql Creating (logical) melodies
« Reply #6 on: January 10, 2016, 09:49:18 am »
I work on chords first and then make a melody based off of it.
Pretty much what I do to too. How can create fauna flora without having created the world itself?
The thing is doesn't feel catchy and dancy.

most of the time for me humming/singing random nonsense with the chords finds a melody hahaha
I might consider humming.  :)

The biggest thing for melodies is PHRASING. Break your melodies up into phrases, short sections that make up a longer line. The breaks between phrases are where you would take a breath, if you were singing them.
This and your link was spot on. Just something I totally overlooked but so important. Little repeated motifs are what make melodies catchy. Being repeated (with harmonic variations) is asking not to be forgotten,. Thanks! :)

Thanks all for your replies!
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Knappster

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Re: [Ql Creating (logical) melodies
« Reply #7 on: January 10, 2016, 12:49:54 pm »
Break it down into small sections. Do it 1 bar at a time. Use a 1/16 note piano role for your lead, use one note and just play over your chord progression until you hear something you like. I'm no wizard at writing melodies but I usually get something decent going when I break things down smaller so its less overwhelming. Practise makes perfect right.
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wayfinder

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Re: [Ql Creating (logical) melodies
« Reply #8 on: January 10, 2016, 08:12:21 pm »
Everyone's workflow is of course different, but whistling, humming and singing is working very well for me. Sometimes things just click and I can intuitively write a melody, but at other times, I have to approach things in a more structured way: I think of melodies in terms of rhythmic patterns and melodic phrases, and I try to surprise with one while keeping the other steady. What that means is, different parts of a melody will end up sounding similar to other parts in some ways and fresh in other ways—finding the balance there is a matter of experience, as are most things. I will also frequently write a second part where I can change up a few things (like going up instead of down in a key place), which is not just a way to call back to the original melody (humans like familiarity), but also a way to express different emotions, and to make a chord progression go a longer way.

Here's an example of a melody I wrote that way (skip to 1:54:40 or so):



Another quick tip: look up call-response patterns. Knowing how to use them will improve your melody writing immensely.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2016, 08:13:57 pm by wayfinder »

Dichotomy

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Re: [Ql Creating (logical) melodies
« Reply #9 on: January 10, 2016, 10:38:04 pm »
Kaivaan kind of mentioned this, and I've used it with some success. Making up lyrics... not to be incorporated in the music... just for the lead instrument to follow. If you have a solid progression composed, this'll be pretty easy. Like humming, with the structure and phrasing that language has naturally. Sure... sing in English, French, or whatever other language you know.

At first it might feel pretty awkward. But then I realized I can make up the silliest, most vapid, terrible lyrics ever and not mind, because they'll never be uttered to another human soul. :)

Will the melody be logical?... it sure will. It'll even inherit some flavor of whatever raw, basic attitude was present in the unspoken lyrics.

trifonic

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Re: [Ql Creating (logical) melodies
« Reply #10 on: January 11, 2016, 12:18:35 am »
Generally you'll want to make a melody as simple as it can be to express the underlying musical phrase. Don't cram in too many notes if it doesn't need them and generally it's not great to have melodies that meander.  A good melody is usually easily singable and has enough space to breathe.  If you can't easily sing your melody -- it probably needs some work.

IMO save the complexity for the harmony or counter melodies, but each individual melodic component or motif benefits from being as simply and concisely expressed as possible.


Dichotomy

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Re: [Ql Creating (logical) melodies
« Reply #11 on: January 11, 2016, 11:22:59 am »
Generally you'll want to make a melody as simple as it can be to express the underlying musical phrase. Don't cram in too many notes if it doesn't need them and generally it's not great to have melodies that meander.  A good melody is usually easily singable and has enough space to breathe.  If you can't easily sing your melody -- it probably needs some work.

IMO save the complexity for the harmony or counter melodies, but each individual melodic component or motif benefits from being as simply and concisely expressed as possible.

I'm kinda surprised you didn't post a link to your own video.
Trifonic: Enhancing Your Tracks With Melodic Counterpoint - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TB5cli_OKtQ
« Last Edit: January 11, 2016, 02:48:57 pm by Dichotomy »

Kareem

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Re: [Ql Creating (logical) melodies
« Reply #12 on: January 11, 2016, 02:11:31 pm »
Thank you all for the replies!!!

I never took in account that a catchy melody should be perfectly hummable.
I checked my older projects and tried humming with my melodies. I had moments were my brain/voice wanted to hum into a certain direction but my melody didn't.do the same.
It caused a very akward moment.

I'm not the best singer but I'll use my voice for my future melodies. A powerful instrument once you realise it. :)

Thanks again!
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phil44

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Re: [Ql Creating (logical) melodies
« Reply #13 on: January 11, 2016, 06:53:41 pm »
To be honest I haven't got a problem with creating a good melody even without music theory. The struggle begins with picking/tweaking sounds to that melody. When I have a good sounding melody what makes me proud, I'm easily getting frustrated because of the poor lead sound and lack of originality. How you guys are solving this problem? Do you start with the melody or you look for the original sound first? If u start with the melody, do you search for a good sound with tons of presets or you have always something on your mind?
« Last Edit: January 11, 2016, 07:19:41 pm by phil44 »

Snow

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Re: [Ql Creating (logical) melodies
« Reply #14 on: January 11, 2016, 08:07:08 pm »
I suggest reading this blog post: http://edmprod.com/ultimate-melody-guide/ (The Ultimate Guide to Writing Better and More Memorable Melodies)