Author Topic: Perceived Loudness  (Read 22623 times)

Kinesthetics

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Re: Perceived Loudness
« Reply #15 on: January 10, 2016, 06:26:00 am »
The high RMS peak most definitely starts with the mix first. You can only smash the fuck out of a track with a limiter so much before it just distorts instead.

As mentioned, the Equal Loudness Countour (Fletcher-Munson Curve) acts as a great guide to making a track that comes across as very loud. We tend to pick up on boosted mids much before boosted highs or lows.
Build it, and they will come.

Ozone

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Re: Perceived Loudness
« Reply #16 on: January 10, 2016, 06:38:56 am »
I suggest looking at "gray noise" as a mixing tool... that is to the Equal Loudness Contour what pink noise is to the equal power line (1 over f).

It can be tricky to create your gray noise, especially since the contour shifts depending on the volume that the music is played at, but you can (for example) plan for club play at, say, 95 dB, and then you will have loudness but you will still be able to hear the parts.


If you get the right gray noise for your needs, you can actually just use the matching in FabFilter Pro-Q or Ozone to adjust your song's curve to that of the curve for your volume level.

I never knew any study like this existed. I also never even thought to realize that the frequencies humans are more sensitive to affect the perceived loudness off the song. I will definitely begin considering this in my future productions. Thank you so much for the insight!

Volant

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Re: Perceived Loudness
« Reply #17 on: January 11, 2016, 01:01:34 am »
Real perceived loudness comes from good equalizing. Every instrument needs to be treated with the right care to bring its characteristics out well and make it shine. You'll notice that on pretty much every major track, nothing unnecessary is in there and nothing unnecessary has been done to the instruments. It's why there are industry standards, some things just work the best.

Basic tips would be not to emphasize on bass, lowmids and highs too much, keep the action in the mids where it can actually be perceived. A good mono / stereo contrast helps too.

TylerWildman

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Re: Perceived Loudness
« Reply #18 on: January 11, 2016, 10:51:09 am »
Not so much sound like them, but just get in the same league, so listeners dont get turned off by the difference in volume between some blasted through the roof carnage track and my track

There's not a major amount of wisdom I can part, but this is a piece of advice I will stand by until I go to the grave, passed onto me from my father, via my grandfather and his fathers before him, and I pass it to you...

NEVER compare your music to Carnage


FarleyCZ

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Re: Perceived Loudness
« Reply #19 on: January 11, 2016, 07:03:05 pm »
...or read something about fletcher-munson curves and you'll get how they do it. Also you'll kinda understand why it's a sh**ty thing to do. :D
« Last Edit: January 11, 2016, 07:15:47 pm by FarleyCZ »
"Earth is round right? Look at it from right angle and you'll be always on top of the world."
...but don't overdo it, because that's called being a d***k.

calgarc

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Re: Perceived Loudness
« Reply #20 on: January 11, 2016, 09:31:40 pm »
Study multiband compression.... this way you can compress/expand different frequencies before limiting them to get a loud mix but also not destroy the track either.

Al_N

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Re: Perceived Loudness
« Reply #21 on: January 11, 2016, 09:33:11 pm »
Study multiband compression.... this way you can compress/expand different frequencies before limiting them to get a loud mix but also not destroy the track either.

Second this. Multiband compression is easily my favorite mixing/mastering tool.

SREYAS

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Re: Perceived Loudness
« Reply #22 on: January 12, 2016, 01:59:21 pm »
I've found that using the full stereo space increases the perception of loudness (fullness?) quite a lot. I like re-layering or duplicating certain sounds, especially supersaws/big pads, with stereo-separated versions of themselves.

Also, RMS mastering (as opposed to peak) definitely results in a louder final mix. It's not always worth it though, especially if you want expressive dynamics.

Regardless, the biggest issue is getting that mix right! Not easy.
"Music is not my living, but it is my life."
https://soundcloud.com/sreyasmusic

auvic

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Re: Perceived Loudness
« Reply #23 on: January 12, 2016, 03:35:50 pm »
There is a chart for perceived loudness...



...but I wouldn't really mess with it when it comes to making your track louder than it already can go. I'm not particularly a big fan of squeezing the shit out of every cycle of volume I possibly can. It's like suffocating my own work.

manducator

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Re: Perceived Loudness
« Reply #24 on: January 13, 2016, 10:06:28 am »
Short answer:

1. Compression or parallel compression
2. Saturation
3. Clipper
4. Limiter

Ozone

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Re: Perceived Loudness
« Reply #25 on: January 14, 2016, 05:12:00 am »
Thanks for the help all! 'Preciate it.

Artless Venture

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Re: Perceived Loudness
« Reply #26 on: January 19, 2016, 02:58:58 pm »
Before buying into the loudness war, consider this:
I am sure you heard of RMS, but there is a newer and better method called LUFS, „Loudness Units relative to Full Scale“. It represents a more accurate information on how loud your track is in general than the RMS method.
YouTube, as one of the biggest platforms to discover music, has implemented such a thing to avoid having audio sounding either too quiet or just being compressed too hard - read more about this here: http://productionadvice.co.uk/youtube-loudness-normalisation-details/

You can either have say one minute of middle-loud vers, and then one minute of middle-loud chorus, or one minute of quiet verse and loud chorus - the LUFS (an integrated value) is going to be the same - and guess what will sound better ;) So let's say after mastering, you have a loud verse and loud chorus, therefore the LUFS has risen too, so it will be turned down for you by YouTube and will sound worse than the version with dynamics.
You can get a free metering plugin here: [url]https://www.klangfreund.com/lufsmeter/[/url
Somewhere on this side there is a simpler and free version of it.

I hope this was an insight for you. I am sure that it is just a matter of time that this method of loudness measuring will spread to other platforms like Soundcloud, since it is already in use for radio, television and most importantly YouTube, to end this loudness war and bring back the music.

All the best,
Artless Venture ♢

Aerithos

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Re: Perceived Loudness
« Reply #27 on: January 26, 2016, 02:42:20 pm »
I completely forgot about this plugin until yesterday:
SlickHDR

It's basically the time-domain version of a multiband compressor.
There are three parallel compressors:
  • Fast response one for transients
  • Slow response one for overall tone
  • Medium response one to smooth the differences
The result is surprisingly impressive.